New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their guns

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Bruenor
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New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their guns

Post by Bruenor »

Seems the money offered by the govt is too little and people don't want to hand them in.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12242343" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Council of Licenced Firearms Owners is exploring legal action over the Government's gun buyback scheme over what it says are unfair prices.

And council spokeswoman Nicole McKee said that while the council is urging its 40,000-odd members to abide by the law, some have told her that they don't intend to hand in their now-illegal firearms.

"Some of the offered prices for higher-end firearms are well out of kilter. We're talking thousands of dollars," McKee said.
Police released an extensive list of guns, each with a price for poor condition (25 per cent of the base price), average condition (70 per cent of the base price), and new or near-new condition (95 per cent of the base price).

The list also includes gun parts - including magazines, silencers, open sights and custom triggers - with a different price setting: 70 per cent of the base price for new or used, and 25 per cent of the base price for poor condition.

Gun City owner David Tipple said the offered prices for the guns were about 25 per cent below what they should be, and the prices for the components were even worse.

"The component prices are horrible robbery."
"The Government kept saying they weren't going to rip us off. They said they would pay full value. They're not, and 250,000 [firearms licence holders] are starting to feel ripped off.

"They're angry and they're frustrated."

Making matters worse was the fact that business losses or items such as a safe for securing guns were also not covered, McKee said.

"That is unfair. Businesses have operated legally, have purchased and invested legally, and they're not being fairly compensated.

"Why do we have to go through this when a foreign terrorist came into this country and committed a crime? The firearms owners are being made scapegoats."
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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by bignflnut »

The government, meanwhile, is faced with a sobering set of challenges over how to enforce the new law.

There is no national registry for many of the weapons targeted by the ban, including the AR-15 — a semiautomatic rifle that has been used in mass shootings in the United States and is often at the center of American gun-control debates.

As a result, estimates of the numbers of newly banned weapons vary widely. So far, about 700 firearms have been voluntarily surrendered.

Authorities are “operating a little bit in the dark,” said Joe Green, gun-safety specialist and former arms control manager for the New Zealand Police.

“It’s really an open checkbook,” he added, “because they don’t know how many they are buying back.”

SNIP

In a separate case, gun collector David Craze, who is also a hunter and competition shooter, said he is considering a lawsuit seeking proper compensation for what he described as “property confiscation.”

Under the government’s buyback program, he would receive about 30% of the actual value of his collection of dozens of firearms, amassed over 50 years, he said.

He had intended to sell some of the firearms as part of his retirement plan, he said, describing his collection as an “investment.”

Others have engaged in far more heated rhetoric.

Paul Clark, owner of New Zealand Ammunition, one of the country’s largest ammunition companies, said he believed many owners would attempt to hide their weapons.

He added that if owners are not allowed to make their case through the justice system, “the only alternative is revolution.”

Asked by Radio New Zealand journalist Lisa Owen to clarify what he meant, he replied: “Literally, what I just said.”
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by M-Quigley »

bignflnut wrote:
The government, meanwhile, is faced with a sobering set of challenges over how to enforce the new law.

There is no national registry for many of the weapons targeted by the ban, including the AR-15 — a semiautomatic rifle that has been used in mass shootings in the United States and is often at the center of American gun-control debates.
That right there should be a wake up call to gun owners in the US. Like Venezuela and some other countries, mass registration will eventually lead to confiscation.
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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by bignflnut »

Gun-owners are pushing back. The legislation is being challenged.

The predictable arrogant leftist response is to threaten honest, law-abiding New Zealanders with even “harsher measures.” A laughable “buy-back” program “compensates” gun-owners for their confiscated property at a pittance of its value. A “deadline” has been set at 20 Dec of this year. That it will be extended is a forgone conclusion.

The government sheepishly admits between one and two million guns, now banned from private possession are impossible to trace, and that many, probably most, will never be turned-in and that a pugnacious black market has already emerged and is growing.

Ammunition hoarding has been reported throughout the nation. Save that brass too.

Honest and decent New Zealanders, like residents of Venezuela and Portland, OR, unable to rely on police for protection, will now turn to the black market to acquire guns they need to keep from being murdered by armed and violent criminals.

This always happens when gun-bans are instituted by arrogant leftists, who hypocritically insure gun-bans they impose on innocent citizens never apply to them.

New Zealanders, nervously awaiting the “knock on the door at midnight,” are suddenly repeating the refrain often heard over here:

“When the government doesn’t trust me with my guns, should I trust them with theirs?”
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by WhyNot »

''The government sheepishly admits between one and two million guns, now banned from private possession are impossible to trace, and that many, probably most, will never be turned-in...''

Yes and another thing to rememb...

Oh, I'm sorry I thought they were talking about here in the States. And, why not :wink: ? Bans of various types and flavors here in the states HAVE already been met with similar results.
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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by bignflnut »

When legislators in any country create a law, it behooves them to understand that the law will only be followed so far. What I mean is that those who are going to follow it can only be expected to adhere to the letter of the law as written, not necessarily to what lawmakers wanted when they crafted that bit of legislation.

At least, that’s how most Americans look at it.

Down in New Zealand, some officials appear to be upset. It seems that a conversion kit that will turn an AR-15 into a pump-action rifle allows people to hold onto their guns rather than turn them it. For the officials, the problem is that this allows people to skirt the spirit of the law.
The great pains that people go to in order to retain the label "law abiding", even while being formally ostracized by their own representatives...
The truth of the matter is that NZ gun owners have no obligation to adhere to the spirit of any law. The law betrayed them. The government latched onto a horrific event and used it as a pretext to punish them for something they didn’t do. If the law leaves a loophole so that they don’t have to dispose of the property they purchased lawfully, why wouldn’t they take advantage of it?

Of course, there are also going to be a lot of people who take the “cold, dead hands” approach, and I can’t say that I blame them either.
*stands and applauds*
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by catfish86 »

I love the one police official talking about recognizing that law abiding citizens through no fault of their own are suddenly law breakers. Another country lost.
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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by WestonDon »

If there is anything good to come of this tragedy I hope it is that New Zealanders, and the rest of the world for that matter, come to understand why us Americans get so agitated when our government tries to impose so called "reasonable" gun laws on us.
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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by bignflnut »

"It's a shame," Warren* told AAP after giving back an AR-15 rifle at a recent buyback in Porirua, a town north of Wellington.

"I just renewed my license. I'm vetted. I've got no security issues.

"I had the AR-15 because you can break it in half and throw it inside your tramping pack, which is a lot more comfortable to carry and it frightens a lot less people.

"We've done nothing wrong and we've been targeted just because some crazy person has come along and done something despicable."
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by Mr. Glock »

Word-wise, this whole “Buy-Back” terminology peeves me. You can’t buy something back that you didn’t own in the first place, and then sell. And then you can buy it back. Call it was it is, confiscation with remuneration.

Certainly this is the case in the US, where firearms sales are not government-run (so, you aren’t buying from the government). It appears the same applies in NZ with private dealers.
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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by bignflnut »

To Mr. Glock's point:

Thomas Massie
‏Verified account @RepThomasMassie
Sep 1

Gun grabbers are clever with language. Calling it a “buy back” subconsciously instills the false concept that ownership was granted by the government.

That’s not how the 2nd Amendment works. In fact, that’s not how any of the Constitution works.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by Brian D. »

And of course, whose money is the government using to buy "back" those legally purchased/owned firearms? If any private sector entity tried something like that, they'd be prosecuted under the RICO statutes.
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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by DOA33 »

I find it funny. I buy a AR-15 with my money I earned. I pay the gov the tax on the sale and also the income tax each pay check. Gov decides to do a mandatory buyback on all AR-15. Guess who's money they're using to buy back a firearm they never owned in the first place plus not paying the real value but pennies on the dollar? Our money we pay for taxes. Guess what happens when the gov uses all of the money in this program? That's right up goes our tax rate. I paid $1000 for a AR-15, pay around $400 in different taxes each paycheck, only receive a $200 check for buying my AR-15 from me, and then a $300 tax hike to pay for the program. :?
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Re: New Zealanders balk at prices Govt is paying for their g

Post by Mr. Glock »

Actually, you are paying 3 taxes on that AR:

1. State Sales Tax on the purchase
2. Federal Completed Rifle Tax (Pittman-Robison IIRC) built into the wholesale cost
3. Corporate Income Tax (the company that built it only passes along taxes in Cost of Goods Sold or Assigned Overhead)
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