Virginia Municipal Building shooting

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bignflnut
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Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by bignflnut »

One would suspect this to be a "Gun-Free Zone", but POTUS may disagree.
It started about 4:00pm yesterday when a longtime Virginia Beach city employee, a city engineer, approached a municipal building near city hall. He killed one person in the parking lot before moving inside and opened fire with a .45 caliber handgun with extended magazines which was reportedly equipped with a suppressor. CNN reports that the gun and suppressor were legally purchased.

When police responded, the shooter engaged in an extended gun battle with four officers, hitting one in his bullet-proof vest. The shooter murdered 12 people and wounded four more before being shot and killed by police.
Suppressors and magazines are on the chopping block next.
Perhaps we can just reclassify them, since they aren't protected explicitly in 2A.
Hey, at least they ARE made of metal.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

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"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by qmti »

A dire prediction: If these mass shootings continue, in the next 20 years,
*the old guard of the Second Amendment (the baby boomers) will have passed on
*the liberal anti-gun forces will successfully have the Second Amendment dissolved
*Republican party will cave in to the pressure (look at Kasich)
*legally owned firearms by law abiding citizens will be confiscated
*only the criminals will have firearms
I apologize for being so negative. Thankfully I won't be around to see it.
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AlanM
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by AlanM »

As far as I can tell that building was not a CPZ under state law.
It might have been under city policy or ordinance.
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by Brian D. »

AlanM wrote:As far as I can tell that building was not a CPZ under state law.
It might have been under city policy or ordinance.
Came across posts elsewhere which suggested the building was CPZ for (most) employees, but not the general public. All those murdered except one were... employees.
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by M-Quigley »

An article on the suppressor use during the shooting that isn't completely one sided.

https://www.whio.com/news/national/did- ... NrL44be4N/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by bignflnut »

AlanM wrote:As far as I can tell that building was not a CPZ under state law.
It might have been under city policy or ordinance.
The Crime Prevention Research Center (CPRC) unearthed information showing the site of the Virginia Beach shooting was a gun-free zone for city employees.

CPRC reports: “Virginia Beach bans employees from being able to carry guns. In addition, while it was indeed possible for a civilian to enter the ‘Operations Building’ where the attack occurred, the ‘Operations Building,’ as its name suggests, was a building where virtually only employees would be in.”
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

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"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by bignflnut »

OBTW, there was a "training" session on active shooters scheduled

substitute items and a T REX!

(how high is this dude?)
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by catfish86 »

A .45 caliber pistol...that is still going to be very loud. I was in the military in spec ops support unit...those guys would use a .22 subsonic in a revolver with a device bridging the gap between barrel and cylinder. That actually comes pretty close to being quiet. The author does point out that the suppressor isn't SILENT, that it doesn't increase lethality in any way. As a matter of fact, correct me if I am wrong but doesn't a suppressor actually decrease ballistic performance slightly?
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by AlanM »

From: https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/suppressor-effects
Suppressors Enhance Accuracy
Unless improperly installed or attached, suppressors do make shooting more accurate. Velocity change is low to nonexistent and generally increases. Modern designs have no adverse affect on the bullet. Standard deviation decreases, as a rule, providing consistency, and significant recoil reduction allows you to be more accurate.

Less muzzle rise, less sound and less concussive effect also help a shooter improve accuracy. As long as they do not come loose and are installed properly, modern suppressors will do nothing less than enhance a shooter’s accuracy.
From this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP
All rounds mentioned, except for 145 gr (9 g) Glaser +P, Cor-Bon, are sub sonic.
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by High Power »

So far, all I've seen have been media reports that the suspect had a suppressor.

Have there been any official statements from the ATF about the alleged suppressor? Have there been any official statements from any law enforcement personnel about an alleged suppressor?
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by bignflnut »

There has been some attention to the killer's reported use of a suppressor. The use of suppressors in criminal acts is very rare in the United States, and in the world.

The shooter used two .45 caliber handguns. Reportedly, one of them had a suppressor.

Later in the nymag article, it is noted the ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, more correctly, BATFE), reported the pistols used in the attack were obtained legally.

SNIP

Details of the suppressor have not been released. There are numerous fake suppressors on the market, and it is difficult, without testing, to know if something that looks like a suppressor actually has any significant effect on lowering the decibel level of the firearm it is attached to. The BATFE has reported the shooter legally purchased the two .45 caliber handguns used in the attack. A legal suppressor would have a serial number and a model. It is interesting the BATFE has not been able to report if the suppressor was legally acquired.

A legal suppressor would have required a background check, fingerprints, and a waiting time of months, as required by the federal level regulations of the National Firearms Act (NFA).

BATFE records for NFA items are notoriously unreliable, but it boggles the imagination that they could not determine the legal status of a suppressor, in the hands of authorities, in two days. At a minimum, you would think the shooter's name and address would be readily available in the BATFE NFA records.

There have been previous mass shooting situations where the shooter was reported to be wearing body armor, which later turned out to be simple magazine carriers. Future reporting should reveal details on whether the suppressor was real or fake, legal or illegal.

Suppressors are not difficult to make. The shooter was an engineer. I know people who have made their own suppressors outside of U.S. jurisdiction. It is not rocket science. One was an illiterate Panamanian. The other was a U.S. military member.

Societies where suppressors are sold over the counter without any paperwork, for cash, such as New Zealand, have not reported any significant level of criminals using suppressors.
two weapons and one suppressor? Sounds like the Las Vegas deal where there were multiple rifles, but just one bumpy plastic machine gun...
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by bignflnut »

While departing the White House for his U.K. visit, President Trump was asked about firearm suppressors and responded, “I don’t like them at all.”

Trump’s comments came after a reporter brought up the Virginia Beach shooter, who had a suppressor on one of his handguns.

The Daily Beast quoted the reporter, who asked Trump, “The suspect in the Virginia Beach shooting used a silencer on his weapon. Do you believe that silencers should be restricted?”

Trump responded simply, “I don’t like them at all.”

Ironically, suppressors are one of the most restricted firearm accessories in America, as they are regulated under the National Firearms Act of 1934. Getting one legally involves passing an in-depth background check, being fingerprinted and photographed, registering the device with the federal government, and paying the government a $200 tax (on top the normal costs and taxes for the suppressor). This acquisition process takes eight months and sometimes longer.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Northam is trying to make trouble

Post by kcclark »

Somehow, the VA governor is still in office and now he is going to use this shooting to push his anti-gun legislation, again.
Northam's bills include a ban on silencers and high-capacity magazines, as well as a broadening of the ability of local governments to prohibit guns in city buildings. The governor said he also wants mandatory, universal background checks before gun purchases; a limit of one handgun purchase per month; and a "red flag" law that would allow authorities to seize weapons from people deemed a threat to themselves or others.
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/ar ... on-on-guns
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by bignflnut »

How hard is it to publicly link the history of racist gun control to his racist photographic escapades, and find that both of these concepts are consistent with a bigot?

This opportunity being teed up on a silver platter, will any "Conservative" in Virginia have the temerity to knock this soft ball hanging out over the center of the plate out of the park?

I wouldn't bet on it.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Virginia Municipal Building shooting

Post by AlanM »

bignflnut wrote:How hard is it to publicly link the history of racist gun control to his racist photographic escapades, and find that both of these concepts are consistent with a bigot?

This opportunity being teed up on a silver platter, will any "Conservative" in Virginia have the temerity to knock this soft ball hanging out over the center of the plate out of the park?

I wouldn't bet on it.
Unfortunately, as a Pro-gun Virginia resident I have to agree with you. Virginia is circling the drain.
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There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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