Potential school shooter felony charges dropped.

[Bruenor]

I'm of two minds on this.. No we shouldn't prosecute 'thought crime', but then again this guy has stated his intentions to the police that he IS going to do this and this arrest is only a delay. With that being said, he isn't fit to be part of society and should be locked up indefinitely.
Interested in hearing others thoughts.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... a-law.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The case of a teenager who wanted to set the highest death count for a school shooter has highlighted a gray area in the law after serious charges against him were dropped over concerns about 'prosecuting thought.'

The day before, Sawyer had bought a brand-new pump-action shotgun and four boxes of ammunition from a Dick's Sporting Goods in Rutland.

Sawyer was arrested after his friend, Angela McDevitt, contacted police on February 15 to tell them that days before Parkland that Sawyer said he was 'plotting on shooting up my old high school.'

On the day of the shooting at Stoneman Douglas, she messaged him to tell him about the incident, to which he'd responded. 'That's fantastic,' he wrote. '100% support it.'

Police questioned Sawyer, who described his plans in depth, including how he had been reading books about the 1999 Columbine shooting and that he'd moved back to Vermont to carry out a similar plan at his old high school.

Police searching his car found the shotgun and ammunition he had legally purchased and a diary called 'The Journal of an Active Shooter.'

In custody Sawyer revealed he'd been thinking about attacking his old school and he wanted to set a new record, the highest death count for a school shooter, killing more than 32 people.

'If I do ever die, I would want it to be that way,' he told police adding his arrest would only delay his plans.

Sawyer's defense said the teenager had been arrested almost a month before the date he had chosen for his attack.

At the end of the trial, the justices ruled that Sawyer may have been prepared to commit the crime, but that wasn't the same 'as attempting' a crime.

He was released on bail, a move which forced Kennedy to dismiss all four felony charges.

In March 2019 Sawyer's case was resolved in family court. The 19-year-old was adjudicated as a youthful offender for carrying a dangerous weapon, a misdemeanor.

Sawyer is in a secure residential treatment facility outside Vermont, according to his mother, Wolk.

He'll remain under the supervision of Vermont's Department of Corrections and Department for Children and Families until his 22nd birthday.

[Javelin Man]

At the end of the trial, the justices ruled that Sawyer may have been prepared to commit the crime, but that wasn't the same 'as attempting' a crime.

He was released on bail, a move which forced Kennedy to dismiss all four felony charges.

Doesn't this go against the idea of the "Red Flag Law"?

[Bubba404]

In more recent news, Dick's will no longer be selling shotguns and ammo.

[bignflnut]

To address the OP and his comment that this individual should no longer be part of a free society.
I get that this person was on a bad mental path. No denying it. I empathize that he had very few impediments between himself and this attack. I stipulate to the "facts" of the case.

HOWEVER...

Isn't this exactly why individuals should be armed at all times? To put down attacks like this? Set him free and let him reap what he sows.
What does Free or Brave mean if we're going to routinely lock scary people up? Innocent until proven guilty under-girds Free and Brave. What is self-government, exactly?

Locking up lost souls like this one is no answer. Does anyone yet comprehend the connection between having a moral people and a free society? We must be able to call sin what it is and confront it with boldness, or we are left begging the State to deal with lost souls. Scare them straight, please!

Freedom is the one issue we need to vote on. Make no mistake, a theocracy is being thrust upon us. The god of the system, however, is destructive to our Freedom.

Forget this guy. I hear you.

The problem is that if the system destroys this guy who hadn't yet committed a crime, they can do the same to someone you actually do care about, justify increasing budgets and the police state gets ever stronger. The power of the State was not intended to sweep lost souls into cages. Natural consequences in a society full of morally upstanding men ready to defend innocent life is the mechanism that will cure this ill. The State having created this ill, cannot let it be destroyed, though, can it? It finds a way to perpetuate power and grow the problem.

However, others assure me that children need public school socialization. #Homeschool

[evan price]

What about the individuals who plan to carry out some attack, not knowing that the one guy in their circle is actually a federal agent, who supplies them with a fake explosive device?
The group is then arrested.
Nobody actually did anything.
It is conspiracy.

I would say this potential school shooter was committing conspiracy to commit murder, at least 32 counts, or conspiracy to commit mass murder. That's got to be legit. You have statements of intent, procuring the weapon and ammunition, moving to another state for closer proximity, confessing to confidantes about his intent, and his own statements to police.

[djthomas]

One crucial distinction is that the crime of conspiracy requires at least one other person to be part of the plot. Advertising one's plans, even prolifically does not constitute conspiracy unless at least one other person both knows and materially assists.

The ORC defines a different offense "attempt" that can be applied to solo actors but the parameters for how far along they have to go are more stringent. Basically you have to try to commit the offense and fail.

Merely buying a shotgun and telling someone you're going to shoot up the school is not attempt. But if you told the person selling you the shotgun that was your plan it would be conspiracy.

[schmieg]

What about the individuals who plan to carry out some attack, not knowing that the one guy in their circle is actually a federal agent, who supplies them with a fake explosive device?
The group is then arrested.
Nobody actually did anything.
It is conspiracy.

I would say this potential school shooter was committing conspiracy to commit murder, at least 32 counts, or conspiracy to commit mass murder. That's got to be legit. You have statements of intent, procuring the weapon and ammunition, moving to another state for closer proximity, confessing to confidantes about his intent, and his own statements to police.

Conspiracy requires more than one individual planning the offense. See the Ohio statute:

§ 2923.01. Conspiracy

(A) No person, with purpose to commit or to promote or facilitate the commission of aggravated murder, murder, kidnapping, abduction, compelling prostitution, promoting prostitution, trafficking in persons, aggravated arson, arson, aggravated robbery, robbery, aggravated burglary, burglary, trespassing in a habitation when a person is present or likely to be present, engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity, corrupting another with drugs, a felony drug trafficking, manufacturing, processing, or possession offense, theft of drugs, or illegal processing of drug documents, the commission of a felony offense of unauthorized use of a vehicle, illegally transmitting multiple commercial electronic mail messages or unauthorized access of a computer in violation of section 2923.421 of the Revised Code, or the commission of a violation of any provision of Chapter 3734. of the Revised Code, other than section 3734.18 of the Revised Code, that relates to hazardous wastes, shall do either of the following:
(1) With another person or persons, plan or aid in planning the commission of any of the specified offenses;
(2) Agree with another person or persons that one or more of them will engage in conduct that facilitates the commission of any of the specified offenses.

The federal one is simpler, but still requires more than one person.

[evan price]

One crucial distinction is that the crime of conspiracy requires at least one other person to be part of the plot. Advertising one's plans, even prolifically does not constitute conspiracy unless at least one other person both knows and materially assists.

The ORC defines a different offense "attempt" that can be applied to solo actors but the parameters for how far along they have to go are more stringent. Basically you have to try to commit the offense and fail.

Merely buying a shotgun and telling someone you're going to shoot up the school is not attempt. But if you told the person selling you the shotgun that was your plan it would be conspiracy.

Very clear explanation, thank you.

[catfish86]

This is a slippery slope on more than just violence. When does writing about the government being wrong and the people should rise up should that become terrorism, inducing panic or something of the kind? Internet traces on computers, phones and other devices are out there being analyzed.

What about "predators". When does a person chatting with someone online become one soliciting sex from a minor? A recent incident with a bus driver in Canton involved a bus driver exchanging texts with a 10 yo girl. A good idea for the bus driver? No. Ultimately he resigned before he was fired and the prosecutor determined no crime has been committed.

How about the guy that says we need to suppress people of a given religion or race? Getting a Swastika tattoo...is that a crime?

Mere possession of child pornography can carry a life sentence.

Do a lot of these people make me uneasy? Sure. Are they possibly going to commit acts of grievous harm to individuals? Sure. So lets act like the Gestapo or the KGB and round up all these folks and put them in a camp somewhere to be "educated" or "reformed"? I am not saying I LIKE or AGREE with anything any of these people do BUT I am almost as uneasy that people want to make these situations crimes because it isn't very far fetched that they consider something like being a Christian fundamentalist be considered intolerant of homosexual because it is a sin and therefore a terrorist to be persecuted. What about supporting Trump? Wearing a MAGA hat? Listening to some in Congress, it is just fine that the FBI and intelligence listen in on such people in order to round them up.