Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitution

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High Power
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Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitution

Post by High Power »

From the article...
The court found that chalking is indeed a "search" for purposes of the Fourth Amendment, because government officials physically trespass upon a constitutionally protected area to obtain information. Just as the Supreme Court ruled in 2012 that sticking a GPS tracker to a car counted as a "search," so is marking a tire with chalk to figure out how long it has been parked, the court wrote.
I think that is the proper ruling. Now if they could only get the rest of the Bill of Rights put in the proper perspective; such as the 2nd amendment.

Full story here: https://www.npr.org/2019/04/23/71624882 ... m_AbN-Pxzs
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Re: Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitu

Post by sodbuster95 »

I will offer at the outset that I am likewise a prolific recipient of traffic citations. I am also someone who will rant endlessly against many traffic enforcement procedures on the basis that they have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue.

Having said that...I am not at all sure that I agree with this outcome. I'll have to ponder it. In a nutshell, I do not think I agree with the Court's application of the Katz standard. Specifically, I fail to see how anyone can have a subjective expectation of privacy in the position of their tires when parked on a public street. And I would differentiate this intrusion (a chalk mark) from the far more intrusive act of placing a GPS tracker on a vehicle. I just don't see those two events as being categorically similar.
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Re: Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitu

Post by WestonDon »

So now cities will be forced to invest in license plate readers. Just raise the parking fines to pay for them. :roll:
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Re: Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitu

Post by JediSkipdogg »

sodbuster95 wrote:I will offer at the outset that I am likewise a prolific recipient of traffic citations. I am also someone who will rant endlessly against many traffic enforcement procedures on the basis that they have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue.

Having said that...I am not at all sure that I agree with this outcome. I'll have to ponder it. In a nutshell, I do not think I agree with the Court's application of the Katz standard. Specifically, I fail to see how anyone can have a subjective expectation of privacy in the position of their tires when parked on a public street. And I would differentiate this intrusion (a chalk mark) from the far more intrusive act of placing a GPS tracker on a vehicle. I just don't see those two events as being categorically similar.
I think you have to look at a few different items. In this case I think the distinguishing factor that made them bring up trespass is that they had to TOUCH the vehicle to mark the tires. I think you they took a picture of the vehicle, and then 24 hours later took a second picture to prove the vehicle was not moved, the city would have won the case. Instead, they act of trespass was accomplished when they touched the chalk to the tires of the vehicle.

In the GPS tracker you bring up, search warrants are required for those. This case is no different. They can get a search warrant that can authorize them to chalk the tires. The issue though is, what officer is going to ask a judge to sign a search warrant on chalking tires?

I am on the fence on parking violations and traffic enforcement. The city I work for started about two years ago going after junk vehicles on private property. Basically, if the vehicle is not actively being worked on and has no registration or appears to be undrivable, it would be a junk vehicle. We only started enforcing it after people complaining on their neighbors how some of their yards were getting trashy with cars. I think depending on the location, some of these parking enforcement matters are revenue generators, but also many are responses for the public in demanding decent looking streets.
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Re: Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitu

Post by WY_Not »

Yep. Kinda like what most people are taught in preschool... If it isn't yours, don't touch it without asking. ie If you don't have a warrant, don't touch it without asking. Not a real difficult concept.
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Re: Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitu

Post by High Power »

I also wonder if this same standard will be applied to a LEO who confiscates a CHL holder's handgun for "officer safety" during a traffic stop.
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Re: Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitu

Post by rickt »

Just the other day I heard a Lakewood officer tell the dispatcher, "The stem of the rear wheel is at the 4 o'clock position and the front wheel stem is at the 9 o'clock position." So Lakewood has already figured out another way to do it.

Lakewood is an older suburb that was built back when many people used public transportation. They have ongoing parking problems because of the lack of parking. It's very common to hear complaints that some street parker is partially blocking someone's driveway.
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Re: Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitu

Post by kcclark »

Columbus chalks junk cars parked on the street. The owners who know how to play the game will push the car 6" after it gets chalked. Owners probably will not appreciate this ruling because now they won't know if their vehicle is in CPD's cross-hairs.
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Re: Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitu

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kcclark wrote:Columbus chalks junk cars parked on the street. The owners who know how to play the game will push the car 6" after it gets chalked. Owners probably will not appreciate this ruling because now they won't know if their vehicle is in CPD's cross-hairs.
And that is where people don't understand that if you push a law to far, it will most likely just backfire. So now police will just record every 24 hours and then mail the tickets and they will stack up in the post offices bin for mailing. And then what's next, they can't place a parking ticket on the vehicle since in most case they have to touch the wiper blade to lift it to place a ticket under it. So now those will build up too and they will just tow more vehicles for "unpaid tickets." Police will find a way with modern technology to get around being unable to chalk. The issue is, the ways around it are now more stealthy and dangerous than just letting chalk be placed on a tire.
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Re: Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitu

Post by ESAFO »

There is a tiny little town just a few minutes from me that has been known in the past to use the 'ChalkTire' method outside of bars.
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Re: Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitu

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Back in my younger days, it was common practice for OSP to mark headlights at bars with paraffin. It went away sometime, but I don’t know the details. When we got wise to it, everybody started carrying SOS pads.
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Re: Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitu

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WestonDon wrote:So now cities will be forced to invest in license plate readers. Just raise the parking fines to pay for them. :roll:
The state actually gives them away under a grant program but youre on your own as far as getting it working with the computer in the car.
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Re: Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitu

Post by docpadds »

JediSkipdogg wrote:
kcclark wrote:Columbus chalks junk cars parked on the street. The owners who know how to play the game will push the car 6" after it gets chalked. Owners probably will not appreciate this ruling because now they won't know if their vehicle is in CPD's cross-hairs.
And that is where people don't understand that if you push a law to far, it will most likely just backfire. So now police will just record every 24 hours and then mail the tickets and they will stack up in the post offices bin for mailing. And then what's next, they can't place a parking ticket on the vehicle since in most case they have to touch the wiper blade to lift it to place a ticket under it. So now those will build up too and they will just tow more vehicles for "unpaid tickets." Police will find a way with modern technology to get around being unable to chalk. The issue is, the ways around it are now more stealthy and dangerous than just letting chalk be placed on a tire.
I dont chalk, i use my GPS enabled camera and take a pic, then tag it for a 24 hour removal notice.
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