Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was low

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M-Quigley
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Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was low

Post by M-Quigley »

Among the reporting of a California synagogue shooting over the weekend (1 dead 3 wounded) were things becoming all too frequent among mass shootings. (such as killer wore a tactical vest with multiple magazines and carrying an AR rifle, various politicians claiming this is why we need gun control despite the fact he was allegedly already violating existing gun laws before the shootings, one or two automatically blamed Trump even though it was later reported that the killer said he hated Trump :roll: ) One of the things I wondered about and didn't initially see in the reporting was why the shooting stopped after 4 victims. Was it due to the presence of an armed person at the scene? Allegedly a off duty Border Patrol agent was there and fired at the guy as he was driving away. Now it's been reported that

A: the gun jammed at one point, and
B: an unarmed person confronted the shooter, closed the gap and maintained at least a 5 foot distance to the shooter, and which point the shooter decided to flee.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la- ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oscar Stewart was focused on the comforting rhythm of the Torah reading when pops of gunfire cut through the sanctuary.

Stewart watched fellow congregants of Poway Chabad jump to their feet and run toward the exits as if in slow motion, away from the violence unfolding in the lobby on Saturday morning, the last day of Passover

The 51-year-old Army veteran began to follow them. And then, in a split-second decision, he turned around.

Stewart doesn’t know why. In retrospect, the Orthodox Jew thinks it might have been the “hand of God.”

Whatever it was that moved through him in that moment, it propelled Stewart into the lobby. He saw the young man — who authorities say was 19-year-old John T. Earnest — in a military-style vest wielding a semiautomatic rifle.

“Get down!” Stewart yelled in the loudest tenor he could muster.

The gunman fired two more rounds in response.

“I’m going to kill you,” Stewart boomed. This seemed to rattle Earnest, who began to flee.

From his time as a sergeant in the Army, Stewart knew that the rifle would be useless if he was within five feet of it. So he kept close to the shooter as he chased him into the parking lot.
I've been in the Army too, and that "useless" comment is rediculous. I don't blame the guy however as I know of examples of the press misinterpreting what someone actually says. It is true that when you are unarmed or armed with a small handgun your chances of survival are generally better at close range than at long range against a BG with a long gun. A young teenage boy years ago once successfully defended himself against an intruder with a rifle at close range, for example, and there are many examples in history of a BG having his rifle taken away from him after someone was able to close the gap.
The shooter got into a Honda sedan. Stewart, seeing the man reach for his weapon, punched the side of the car. The man started the ignition and let go of the rifle.

That’s when Jonathan Morales, an off-duty Border Patrol agent, shot four bullets into the car. As the shooter sped away, Stewart and Morales took down the license plate number.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/rabbi-in-cal ... -bloodbath" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Los Angeles Times reported that Goldstein recently asked a Border Patrol agent to attend the temple while armed and it apparently paid off. The agent gave chase to the suspect and fired as he sped off.
Although it's still not clear yet from the reporting when exactly the jam occurred and or what significance it had to the shooter stopping his attack, the bottom line is intervention from one or two who decided to be sheepdogs instead of sheep lowered the number of dead and injured. Sadly this point still seems lost on the anti self defense crowd, who prefer to advocate for even more gun control laws that mass killers won't obey anyway, and will only interfere with good peoples ability to protect themselves effectively. :(
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by Javelin Man »

I hope this doesn't violate TOS, but could someone explain to me either publicly or in an IM why Jews are being hated, persecuted, attacked? Why the anti-antisemitism and why is that even being considered after the Germans actions in WWII? Who have they attacked or ticked off to cause this? :?: :?
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by JonasM »

Regarding " Stewart knew that the rifle would be useless if he was within five feet of it. "

Seems to me that is true if you are chasing the guy with the rifle. When that close, no way is the guy going to turn, aim & fire in sufficient time to stop you from taking him down.
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by WestonDon »

Javelin Man wrote:I hope this doesn't violate TOS, but could someone explain to me either publicly or in an IM why Jews are being hated, persecuted, attacked? Why the anti-antisemitism and why is that even being considered after the Germans actions in WWII? Who have they attacked or ticked off to cause this? :?: :?
I'd like to hear the answer to that as well. I can't figure it out.
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by M-Quigley »

Javelin Man wrote:I hope this doesn't violate TOS, but could someone explain to me either publicly or in an IM why Jews are being hated, persecuted, attacked? Why the anti-antisemitism and why is that even being considered after the Germans actions in WWII? Who have they attacked or ticked off to cause this? :?: :?
If you're referring to antisemitism in general, or why anyone of any religion merely dislikes someone of another religion or branch of a religion, there are many reasons for it and a person could write an entire book on the subject. And yes going into detail would probably violate TOS, IDK. If you're referring to why someone wants to murder innocent Muslims or Christians or Jews or Hindus my theory is that type of religious extremism is a mental illness. The alleged hatred of some particular group to the point where the person wants to murder innocent people is merely the symptom of the disease.

Regardless of who hates who and why, IMHO religious institutions should take the proper precautions and harden their defenses as much as legally possible. When someone is murdering your people in cold blood, the why becomes irrelevant in the moment. The killer should be interfered with as soon as possible in order to save peoples lives.
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by rDigital »

There were armed citizens inside the synagogue. Our Drsalee @ ar15.com was a regular at this synagogue. He spells out what happened in a thread at ar15.com

https://ilwd4cr.home.blog/2019/04/29/po ... -involved/
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by Brian D. »

VERY interesting link. Stuff we'll never get out of the mainstream media.
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by M-Quigley »

WestonDon wrote:
Javelin Man wrote:I hope this doesn't violate TOS, but could someone explain to me either publicly or in an IM why Jews are being hated, persecuted, attacked? Why the anti-antisemitism and why is that even being considered after the Germans actions in WWII? Who have they attacked or ticked off to cause this? :?: :?
I'd like to hear the answer to that as well. I can't figure it out.
Here is allegedly one possible answer, at least for this guy. (hopefully shouldn't violate TOS)

https://www.whio.com/news/national/susp ... rpH5YMXJJ/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
POWAY, Calif. — The lone suspect in a fatal attack on a Southern California synagogue was a star scholar, athlete and musician whose embrace of white supremacy and anti-Semitism has dumbfounded his family and others who thought they knew him well.

John T. Earnest, 19, made the dean's list both semesters last year as a nursing student at California State University, San Marcos. In high school, he had stellar grades, swam on the varsity team and basked in applause of classmates for his piano solos at talent shows.

Earnest radicalized sometime over the last two years and is charged with murder and attempted murder in Saturday's assault on the Chabad of Poway synagogue, which killed one woman and injured three, including the rabbi. He is also charged with arson in connection with an attack last month on a mosque in nearby Escondido.
Owen Cruise, 20, saw Earnest every day during senior year at Mt. Carmel High School in San Diego when the two were in calculus and physics together. They were in the school's amateur radio club together.

Earnest's piano performances drew audiences to their feet. He did a rendition of "Pirates of the Caribbean" and played Chopin and Beethoven.

"Crowds would be cheering his name," Cruise said Monday. "Everybody loved him."

Earnest counted Jews and blacks among his friends. His father, John A. Earnest, is a popular physics teacher at Mt. Carmel, where he has worked for the last 31 years.
and then
A manifesto — written by a person identifying himself as John Earnest that was published online shortly before the attack — spewed hatred toward Jews and praised the perpetrators of attacks on mosques in New Zealand that killed 50 people last month and at Pittsburgh's Tree of Life synagogue that killed 11 on Oct. 27.

Earnest frequented 8chan, a dark corner of the web where those disaffected by mainstream social media sites often post extremist, racist and violent views.

"I've only been lurking here for a year and half, yet what I've learned here is priceless. It's been an honor," he wrote.

Earnest invites followers to watch the attack live to recommended song list, including "Sloop John B" by The Beach Boys and the "Pokemon Theme Song." He says he planned the synagogue attack for four weeks.

"If you told me even 6 months ago that I would do this I would have been surprised," Earnest wrote.
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by Javelin Man »

:shock: Wow. Just, wow!
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by Bruenor »

This sentence says a lot.
"The Perp had multiple mags, A huge massacre was prevented by the presence of that wheelgun"
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by AlanM »

JonasM wrote:Regarding " Stewart knew that the rifle would be useless if he was within five feet of it. "

Seems to me that is true if you are chasing the guy with the rifle. When that close, no way is the guy going to turn, aim & fire in sufficient time to stop you from taking him down.
Stewart was interviewed on FoxNews this morning.
He explained that his eyes never left the muzzle of the gun and prepared to dodge if it started to point his way.
He also explained that inside 5 feet the perp really couldn't swing it far enough to put him in danger.
He also stated that the kid obviously was not well practiced with the rifle.


Add to that that Stewart screamed at the perp so loud that the minister holding services across the street heard him.
The perp was severely rattled.

Stewart is a combat vet.
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by JonasM »

Stewart was definitely in the right place at the right time.
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by Mustang380gal »

Javelin Man wrote:I hope this doesn't violate TOS, but could someone explain to me either publicly or in an IM why Jews are being hated, persecuted, attacked? Why the anti-antisemitism and why is that even being considered after the Germans actions in WWII? Who have they attacked or ticked off to cause this? :?: :?
I remember when the TOS were changed to forbid religious discussion. As I recall, there was some who were trying to get people converted and discussion of the finer points of one's particular denomination which got heated. Most discussions then got much more heated than now.

I don't think answering and asking the question you did would violate the TOS at all. You aren't trying to discuss what got us into trouble back then.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I suspect it has nothing to do with anything they did or said. I suspect that they are a scapegoat, being used to divide us as Americans. If we support the Jewish people/Israel, then we aren't supporting America. (I heard some discussion on line that made that argument). They are trying to divide us by color and political bent, too. The left knows it can't win if we stand together. They are trying hard to drive us apart.
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

Post by rickt »

Javelin Man wrote:I hope this doesn't violate TOS, but could someone explain to me either publicly or in an IM why Jews are being hated, persecuted, attacked? Why the anti-antisemitism and why is that even being considered after the Germans actions in WWII? Who have they attacked or ticked off to cause this? :?: :?
Over the last year I listened to a college course on the History of the Christian Church via iTunes University. One subject the instructor touched on was antisemitism. You could write a book on this but a few things I remember him saying...

During the Roman Empire, the Romans insisted that everyone worship the emperor as a god. Since almost all Roman subjects were pagans, that was no big deal. However, the Jewish people being monotheist were outraged. They revolted against the Romans three times which eventually resulted in the diaspora, destruction of the Temple and other sanctions. This made Jews very unpopular in the empire.

The first Christians were of course Jews and Messianic Jews were part of the church until the Council of Nicea in 325. The Council decreed that any Jew wanting to remain in the church had to renounce all Jewish practices. Practicing Jews thus became outsiders in a predominately Christian European culture. As a minority they became a very convenient scapegoat for all the world's ills...Plague, bad economic times, etc. Usury was considered a sin thus only Jews could be money lenders during medieval times which created a lot of resentment.

Martin Luther was a strong antisemite and the Catholic Church until the twentieth century was not exactly friendly to Jews.

I see two types of antisemitism today. Neo-nazi types that think Jews are responsible for many of the worlds ills and then you have Muslims who want Israel to be destroyed. Ironically, in medieval times, Jews were better treated in Muslim countries than in Christian countries.

I'm sure someone better versed in the subject could give a better explanation but my main point is antisemitism has been around for two thousand years.
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Re: Varied reasons why casualty count in Ca synagogue was lo

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LINK
A California man who opened fire at the Congregation Chabad synagogue in 2019 in Poway, California, will spend the rest of his life in prison after pleading guilty Tuesday to murder and other charges in the shooting.
Earnest avoids a possible death penalty from the state with his guilty plea in San Diego Superior Court, but federal prosecutors have until Aug. 30 to decide whether or not to pursue the death penalty. The San Diego District Attorney's Office said Earnest would serve the life sentence without the possibility of parole in state prison,
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