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Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:53 pm
by techmike
Excellent catch Brian. Yes that was a very smooth recovery and transition.
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:06 pm
by JediSkipdogg
Brian D. wrote:techmike wrote:Body cam footage -
HERE of all places. It appears that the officer wearing this cam used his pistol to nail the shooter through the window. Also noted that another officer with an AR ditched it as it may have jammed? I think I detected an expletive in the audio...
Slow that down and look closely. It appears he fired one round from the AR and then dropped it because..no magazine was in the well. It could have been bumped out because he was sprinting to the scene from his vehicle.
In the fire/EMS racket, we occasionally broke equipment during full tilt training, and more often when doing stuff for real in an emergency.
That officer transitioned to his M&P about as smooth and quick as his adrenaline dump allowed.
From what you heard it fell out at some point. Talking with some I know at CPD they are notorious for loading the mags to the full 30 rounds, which we all know at that point sometimes makes them hard to seat properly. My guess is he thought it was fully in and it fell out.
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:21 pm
by schmieg
JediSkipdogg wrote:
From what you heard it fell out at some point. Talking with some I know at CPD they are notorious for loading the mags to the full 30 rounds, which we all know at that point sometimes makes them hard to seat properly. My guess is he thought it was fully in and it fell out.
In Viet Nam, we always slapped the bottom of the mag after inserting it and, if we had time, grabbed and shook it to make sure it was seated properly.
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:10 am
by Chuck
schmieg wrote:JediSkipdogg wrote:
From what you heard it fell out at some point. Talking with some I know at CPD they are notorious for loading the mags to the full 30 rounds, which we all know at that point sometimes makes them hard to seat properly. My guess is he thought it was fully in and it fell out.
In Viet Nam, we always slapped the bottom of the mag after inserting it and, if we had time, grabbed and shook it to make sure it was seated properly.
I would say he had time, wouldn't you?
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:26 pm
by Brian D.
I'm thinking he grabbed the rifle from the trunk of his cruiser, and the magazine release button got bumped while the officer was rushing across the square, or wherever he responded from on foot. I could imagine him not noticing that happened. When you get focused in on rushing directly towards some danger, your eyes and ears sometimes block out everything else. That much, I'm not guessing about.
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:14 pm
by Chuck
Not exactly what you would call, "heightened awareness", is it?
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:36 pm
by techmike
Well, I wonder how often CPD does training with their rifles. Other than periodic paper punching.
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:54 am
by Brian D.
techmike wrote:Well, I wonder how often CPD does training with their rifles. Other than periodic paper punching.
Probably as little as the state standards allow.
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:58 am
by AlanM
Brian D. wrote:I'm thinking he grabbed the rifle from the trunk of his cruiser, and the magazine release button got bumped while the officer was rushing across the square, or wherever he responded from on foot. I could imagine him not noticing that happened. When you get focused in on rushing directly towards some danger, your eyes and ears sometimes block out everything else. That much, I'm not guessing about.
That would mean that either the AR was in his trunk in, at least, condition one or he inserted the magazine, closed the bolt and then, somehow, dropped the magazine.
I doubt that transporting an AR with a round in the chamber is department SOP.
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:00 am
by Brian D.
Chuck wrote:Not exactly what you would call, "heightened awareness", is it?
It's what can happen when your focus hones in 100% on one thing during an emergency. Maybe you can relate: That day in the hunting field, when you were attacked, at any point were you looking around to see if that cow had any friends?
Seriously though, I think you know what I mean.
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:06 am
by Brian D.
AlanM wrote:
That would mean that either the AR was in his trunk in, at least, condition one or he inserted the magazine, closed the bolt and then, somehow, dropped the magazine.
I doubt that transporting an AR with a round in the chamber is department SOP.
Alan, they keep the ARs in some sort of trunk mounted rack. Magazine inserted, no round in the chamber. A sling attached, no spare magazines on it.
Is it that hard to imagine the release button getting bumped while you're sprinting, rifle hastily slung?
Tell you what, guys: I should see my best CPD pal at a cigar event tonight, I will get the skinny from him, okay?
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:27 am
by slowquest
Not trunk mounted. Some are in soft cases in trunks, most are in vertical mounts between the 2 front seats. Not sure what the protocol is on mags inserted or not during transport.
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:15 pm
by Bruenor
Can't say I've never had a mag fall out when loading at an empty start or during a forced reload in competition, and that just under stress generated by a clock. doesn't surprise me that it could happen under stress of an actual incident.
as for training they probably train as much as budget will allow, which is probably not as much as they would prefer.
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:37 pm
by catfish86
You always train beyond the point of being good because stress knocks your performance. An example is airborne (parachute) training in the Army. You go to jump school for two weeks practicing falls and exits ALL DAY LONG before you see an aircraft. By that point I would react from a dead sleep to jump commands. My first jump I literally felt like a robot.
Re: Shooting at 5/3 Bank in Cincin
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:02 pm
by JustaShooter
catfish86 wrote:You always train beyond the point of being good because stress knocks your performance.
In the ideal world, yes. But in the budget-restricted world of local law enforcement, that rarely actually happens.