Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Postby deanimator » Thu May 21, 2020 4:25 am

Regardless of whether the shooting was justified or not, it's pretty dumb for somebody to indulge in ostensible police work with none of the legal protections that go with it, ESPECIALLY when there's no immediate danger to life and limb.

It's not the job of the police to protect the life and limb of individuals.
It's definitely the job of the police to investigate crimes and make arrests. Why do their job for them without the (sometimes unfair) protections which they enjoy?
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Postby bignflnut » Thu May 21, 2020 8:54 am

deanimator wrote:It's definitely the job of the police to investigate crimes and make arrests. Why do their job for them without the (sometimes unfair) protections which they enjoy?


Respectfully, and I realize I'm on my own island here, THIS is the problem.
We've outsourced our responsibility to govern ourselves via the militia that is necessary to the Free State.
The only constitutional way for us to regain our freedoms, and we should do this right quick before elections get counted, is via the rebirth of the citizen militia. So much of our society would get a better education, better community cohesion, better financing, etc...

Our county sheriffs and commissioners are going to lead us to reclaiming the mantle of "the land of the free and the home of the brave", or not.

Part One. The “covid-19” panic has exposed a basic discontinuity of government in the effective disestablishment of “the Militia of the several States”.

Part Two. A discontinuity of government through a military take-over has been threatened because of the “covid-19” crisis.

Part Three. The “covid-19” panic has rationalized a discontinuity of government through the seizure of supreme power by public-health “technocrats” in league with rogue public officials.

Part Four.. In large measure, the blame for these three discontinuities of government can be laid at the feet of the proponents of “the individual right to keep and bear arms”.

Part Five. Americans should reimpose true continuity of government by revitalizing “the Militia of the several States”.


If we didn't just witness Government over Man....I don't know what to call it.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Postby Klingon00 » Thu May 21, 2020 8:35 pm

For me personally, there simply isn't enough evidence so far presented for me to yet judge either way on this. The video doesn't show clearly who initiated violence and I can see a plausible argument that either one could have initiated it. I also see a lot of the media and social sites attempting to poison the well, both for and against murder charges which isn't helping people maintain any kind of objectivity in this case. Just some thoughts:

    * Did racism play a role? Maybe but I haven't yet seen any evidence of it. Still waiting.

    * Should the McMichaels have been playing law enforcement? Well I think that while this question clearly reminds many of us of the Zimmerman trial, we have to remember that this question did not play a factor in the result of that trial, and I don't believe it will play one here. They weren't doing anything particularly illegal (except maybe violate some traffic laws) in being where they where before the shooting occurred. Remember, they aren't being charged with attempting to make an unlawful arrest. Tactically, is it the best idea? Well as we can clearly see here and in the Zimmerman case what can happen, even with a somewhat positive outcome for GZ. I'll leave it to others to decide for yourselves if that's worth the risk.

    * Was Arbery guilty of crimes of theft that justifies his being shot? Maybe he committed thefts, maybe not. Is it really relevant in the courtroom? I guess it does in the court of public opinion. I'm not versed in Georgia law, but I suspect that theft isn't justification for deadly force alone.

Ultimately I believe it will boil down to what other evidence may exist that shows what happened when Arbery ran around the truck out of the view of the camera that ended up in a life and death struggle over a firearm. If such evidence doesn't exist, there may just be an opening for reasonable doubt which isn't good for the prosecution.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Postby catfish86 » Thu May 21, 2020 9:37 pm

Klingon, I will say that the evidence is undisputed that he did not steal anything from the site. It has also become clear that a lot of different people were wandering around this site that were trespassing.

Another thing that is clear is that the police in the area have a long and sordid reputation in a number of different incidents.

Another thing to be learned is when you are involved in an incident like this, drawing attention to yourself is a bad idea.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Postby DOA33 » Thu May 21, 2020 10:22 pm

They're saying in the police report that McMichaels said, Roddie tried to involve himself by blocking Arbery with his car. So far no evidence saying he did or didn't just the testimony of one of the McMichaels.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ahmaud-arber ... ony-murder

William "Roddie" Bryan Jr., the man who recorded the deadly February shooting of Georgia jogger Ahmaud Arbery, has been arrested on charges of felony murder and criminal attempt to commit false imprisonment, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation [GBI] announced Thursday night.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Postby M-Quigley » Fri May 22, 2020 5:42 am

The man who took the video of the shooting is charged.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-filmed-sh ... d=70820910

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation on Thursday said it arrested William "Roddie" Bryan Jr., 50, on charges of felony murder and criminal attempt to commit false imprisonment.

Bryan took the viral cellphone footage depicting the chase and killing of Arbery, 25, on Feb. 23 in Glynn County.


Bryan will be booked into the Glynn County Jail, GBI said. An initial police report noted Bryan tried unsuccessfully to block Arbery, who was jogging in the neighborhood when confronted.

The 28-second video showed Arbery jogging as Travis McMichael, 34, stood outside of a white pickup truck armed with a shotgun and Gregory McMichael, 64, a former police officer, stood in the truck's open flatbed trunk holding a. 357 magnum.

The video shows Arbery and Travis McMichael tussling with the shotgun before three shots are fired. Arbery stumbled and fell to the ground, where he was pronounced dead.


The lawyer for the guy said

On Monday, Gough also said that Bryan was unarmed at the time of the shooting and "was not in communication with Gregory or Travis McMichael, or anyone else, during that timeframe."
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Postby M-Quigley » Sat May 23, 2020 4:04 am

bodycam video of the deceased and and a past interaction with law enforcement.

TMZ's statement about the use of a taser and the lack of him having a weapon misses the point of the purpose of a taser. A taser is not a substitute for a gun if the suspect has a gun.

https://www.tmz.com/2020/05/18/ahmaud-a ... mcmichael/
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Postby catfish86 » Sun May 24, 2020 12:35 am

Watching that video from TMZ I first note that it is choppy and only a select portion of the video.

From what I could gather, he was parked in the grass at a park alone. When approached by a police officer he got out of the vehicle and refused to consent to a search of the vehicle, which is his right. The officer became agitated and Aubery became agitated. At a certain point, he needs to learn to say "Am I free to go" rather than "why are you Fing with me" but he does have a point. The officer's reply "this is an area known for drug use" does not give police free license to search at will.


The officer that tazed him had no cause to do so other than the guy refused to consent to a search and was getting {inappropriate language} off at what he saw as harrassment.

What is also interesting is that the police department had told people in the neighborhood to contact the elder McMichael to investigate, effectively making him an agent of the police, despite the fact that his powers of arrest had been stripped due to failure to follow protocol for continuing education. So is he then, stripped of his powers of arrest, still able to make a citizens arrest, even assuming it was warranted, which it was not. A trespass is not a felony. The belief has to be reasonable that Aubery had JUST committed a felony and was fleeing. That dog just won't hunt.
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Carrying a gun is a right, not a crime.

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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution : verdict

Postby Bruenor » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:55 pm

Ahmaud Arbery case: Jury finds McMichaels, Bryan guilty on felony murder charges

https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/ahmau ... -wednesday

Jurors in Brunswick, Georgia, on Wednesday found Travis McMichael and his father Greg McMichael guilty on all counts, according to Judge Timothy Walmsley.

Jurors found Travis McMichael guilty of malice murder, four counts of felony murder, two counts of aggravated assault, false imprisonment and criminal attempt to commit a felony.

The jury also found Greg McMichael guilty of four counts of felony murder, two counts of aggravated assault, false imprisonment and criminal attempt to commit a felony. Jurors found him not guilty on charges of malice murder.

Finally, the jury found the McMichaels' neighbor, William "Roddie" Bryan, guilty of felony murder and aggravated assault.

The McMichaels and Bryan were facing nine counts each.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Postby Javelin Man » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:49 am

The jury got it right, just like in Kyle Rittenhouse's trial. When the facts are given to the court and jury instead of through the media, a good decision can be made.

But what would we do without the razor-sharp political wit of our celebrities and sports figures?
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution : verdict

Postby pk47 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:58 am

Bruenor wrote:
Jurors found Travis McMichael guilty of malice murder, four counts of felony murder, ...


If you murder one person, how are you guilty of four counts of felony murder? :?: :?
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution : verdict

Postby FormerNavy » Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:08 pm

pk47 wrote:
Bruenor wrote:
Jurors found Travis McMichael guilty of malice murder, four counts of felony murder, ...


If you murder one person, how are you guilty of four counts of felony murder? :?: :?



Probably the same way that you can be guilty of multiple counts of OVI for a single instance... you have general OVI... then OVI under the influence of prescription meds... and you'll get charged (and possibly convicted) of both. My guess is that there are different variations that are codified so they charged them with each. The sentences would normally run concurrently for something like that... not that it matters in this case.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution : verdict

Postby schmieg » Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:59 pm

FormerNavy wrote:
pk47 wrote:If you murder one person, how are you guilty of four counts of felony murder? :?: :?



Probably the same way that you can be guilty of multiple counts of OVI for a single instance... you have general OVI... then OVI under the influence of prescription meds... and you'll get charged (and possibly convicted) of both. My guess is that there are different variations that are codified so they charged them with each. The sentences would normally run concurrently for something like that... not that it matters in this case.

Usually, unless there is a major difference in the elements of the multiple offenses, the convictions are merged and sentencing is done accordingly.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Postby catfish86 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:46 am

I will say this: In the Rittenhouse and the Arbery trials the judges allowed the proceedings to be televised. VERY important for the public to understand and accept the verdicts. At the last minute the judge in the trial of the training officer who tazed a fleeing suspect with her Glock changed course and allowed cameras in that courtroom. I had suspected both verdicts from previous evidence but the viewing of the evidence clarified both. I was on the fence about Bryan (the video guy) but turns out he was a full participant in the hunt and bumped him with his truck which brought in the felony murder he was convicted of.

In this case, I truly believe it was a lynch mob of racists. Them being racists is not a crime but acting on it by killing a man is. I am happy that a backwater Georgia mostly white jury convicted all three.
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Carrying a gun is a right, not a crime.

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