Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

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M-Quigley
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Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by M-Quigley »

So far at least 8 innocent people dead, initial reports are a "long gun" was used. The shooter then killed himself.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-news/cr ... dianapolis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And of course there will be the predictable calls for more gun control laws, whether or not any of the proposed laws would've made one bit of difference or not. As a famous Democrat once said, "Never let a tragedy go to waste." :( No law is going to stop someone from either killing other people, particularly if they are suicidal.

One thing I've noticed with most mass shootings at large businesses is a lack of any kind of plan for dealing with a mass shooting other than run, hide, and call 911. Heaven forbid they would actually have a realistic plan to effectively fight back or at the very least distract an active shooter until the police get there. They are almost always "no guns for the law abiding employees" areas, and if they do have any security at all, it's usually one guy in a uniform, (usually unarmed) who in the event of a mass shooting will sadly end up probably being the first victim. Here is a statement from the news story. :(
2:58 a.m. Friday

New: The incident near Indianapoplis Int’l has led to increased security at main FedEx facility, though shooting happened at nearby FedEx Ground building.
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by bignflnut »

Wasn't there a big call between 100 corporate heads recently?

Was FedEx on that call?

Nah.

Too easy.
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by machinegunkelly »

My tin foil hat says, sleepers infiltrating into the general population. Controlled by an Alphabet agency, deep swamp, KGB, etc. Or same mind control groups that talk suicide bombers into blowing themselves up in churches and markets.
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M-Quigley
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by M-Quigley »

There is probably going to be a big deal from the anti gun crowd about how the killer allegedly use 2 "assault rifles" in the mass shooting, while no attention is being paid to the fact that the defenseless employees didn't even have a handgun, or even a cell phone to call 911 with. :( It's a scientifically proven fact that In almost all mass shootings, when it comes to reducing the number of dead or injured, it's not really about what the murderer had but what the victims didn't have. :(

https://www.whio.com/news/trending/mult ... NN4JB7LMY/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by DOA33 »

Sounds like half of the ones killed was outside in the parking lot. One even had a handgun in their car, but couldn't get it. Also the shooter got both guns legally.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/pol ... g-77148598" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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M-Quigley
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by M-Quigley »

DOA33 wrote:Sounds like half of the ones killed was outside in the parking lot. One even had a handgun in their car, but couldn't get it. Also the shooter got both guns legally.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/pol ... g-77148598" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Do you have a link about the person who had a handgun in their car but couldn't get it?
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by kcclark »

M-Quigley wrote: Do you have a link about the person who had a handgun in their car but couldn't get it?
Here is where I originally read it:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/man-w ... nd-killed/

That said, I cannot find any followup. What I did find is the story is based on interviews with a witness named Levi Miller and Levi's friend whose interview can be seen here:
https://twitter.com/MikeThePhotog/statu ... 0511137793

This story has the link to Levi's interview with NBC:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14669897/ ... an-killed/

Only three men were killed. From reading about him, it seems highly unlikely that Jaswinder Singh would have been packing. That leaves Matthew R Alexander and John Weisert. If somebody had a gun, Weisert seems the most likely of the two since he was a Vietnam Vet.
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by M-Quigley »

And of course there are ignorant people on those links who claim this somehow proves having a gun is somehow meaningless, when there are many other stories of people shooting back who have changed the outcome of a mass shooting. We don't know the exact facts of the good guy vs. bad guy encounter, like how far away was the shooter from the good guy? Distance favors the guy with a rifle most of the time. Did the murderer see the guy getting a gun out of his trunk, thereby losing any element of surprise? If not was the good guy utilizing cover? Tactics are sometimes more important than the gun used. If the employee had been allowed to carry concealed could he have had used the element of surprise against the murderer? Having quick access to a gun is not and has never been 100% insurance against a criminal, but it almost always gives you a higher chance of survival than not having one, as long as the defender is smart about it.
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by bignflnut »

So when Hole went on his shooting spree, the question naturally arose…how did he get the gun he used? Wouldn’t he have been prohibited under Indiana’s red flag law?

Well, no. That’s not due to a “loophole” in the law, but because the local prosecutor chose not to petition the court within the required 14 days after the shotgun was confiscated. Why? Because, as Marion County Prosecutor Ryan Mears told reporters, he didn’t want to give the shotgun back.
From the Associated Press . . .

The “red flag” legislation, passed in Indiana in 2005 and also in effect in other states, allows police or courts to seize guns from people who show warning signs of violence. Police seized a pump-action shotgun from Hole, then 18, in March 2020 after they received the call from his mother.

But prosecutors were limited in their ability to prepare a “red flag” case due to a 2019 change in the law that requires courts to make a “good-faith effort” to hold a hearing within 14 days. An additional amendment required them to file an affidavit with the court within 48 hours.

“This individual was taken and treated by medical professionals and he was cut loose,” and was not even prescribed any medication, Mears said. “The risk is, if we move forward with that (red flag) process and lose, we have to give that firearm back to that person. That’s not something we were willing to do.”
What he wasn’t willing to do was return the shotgun.

Psychiatrists had examined Hole had let him go. Mears said that, because of that, he was worried he couldn’t make the case that Hole should continue to be deprived of his guns under the Indiana red flag law. So rather than argue that point in court, he just let the matter slide…and held onto the gun.

That succeeded in keeping the shotgun out of Hole’s hands, who apparently made no attempt to get it back. But the pass by the psychiatrists and the lack of a determination by the court also ensured that Hole would be able to legally buy more firearms, something he did twice in the following months. Those were the guns he used to murder those eight people last week.

The prosecutor’s actions — or inaction — have one benefit. They clearly highlight the problems inherent with red flag laws.
So...
A. Red Flag Law failed to prevent rapid multiple homicide, which was the stated intended goal.
B. The prosecutor intentionally didn't follow the law, preferring to act as judge, jury and executioner over a shotgun.
B1. Mears, the prosecutor has no fear for his job as he continues to justify his actions, despite having no reason to deprive someone of property. See how this official has been trained / discipled? He values the confiscation over the mental health of Hole. He values the confiscation over the employees lives. He values the confiscation over due process. He values the confiscation uber alles, and has zero shame in his decision.
C. A shrink was willing to be impartial, and this will be the new pressure point to conceal the intentions of prosecutors in the future.
C1. Shrinks shouldn't be the strongest link in the justice system. Who wants to trust their rights to their local, un-elected, albeit perhaps impartial (for the moment) shrink?
D. NICS didn't prevent the rapid multiple homicide, because the database doesn't include a rouge prosecutor being overruled by an impartial shrink. NICS doesn't need fixed, it needs eradicated. It doesn't keep us safe either.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

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"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by M-Quigley »

From the above link posted:
None of the above should be construed as an argument in favor of due process-free gun confiscations under red flag laws. As we’ve pointed out before, there is no such thing as a “good” red flag law. There are plenty of provisions and procedures already in place in every state for examining and, if necessary, holding an individual who is suspected of being harmful to himself or others.
And that's the big problem with all red flag laws, is that they concentrate on the tool, not the person. If someone is truly a danger to themselves or others, they are still a danger regardless of whether you confiscate any guns they might have on them. There are many ways, legal or not, to get another gun, and they can kill people with other things as well. A very distant ex relative of mine got out of prison a few years ago, despite the fact that he had allegedly made a written list of people that he was going to kill. We were allegedly on the list, just not high up on it. When we got a warning call from a relative who was at the top of the list, we took extra precautions. Within a few days after getting released he illegally obtained 3 guns. The only reason he didn't carry out his killing spree was that he had a negligent discharge with one of them as he was handling it. After he got out of the hospital he went back to prison, but he's out now again. Thankfully he's no longer considered a threat due to his disability from the shooting. The point is though that something should've been done about him when he made the threats, not just depend on luck and his incompetence to avoid getting murdered by an ex con.
In the end, of course, it probably didn’t make a difference. As we’ve seen time and time again, criminals and crazies can always get a gun if they want one. If they can’t legally buy one, they’ll steal one, buy one of the black market, or have a straw purchaser buy one for them. The only people who are truly inconvenienced and disarmed by red flag and other gun control laws are responsible law-abiding gun owners.
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by bignflnut »

A judge this week issued new guidance requiring all “red flag” cases filed by Indianapolis police to be brought before her after a prosecutor was criticized for not pursuing a measure that could have prevented the suspect in the recent FedEx mass shooting from obtaining a weapon.

The Associated Press reports that Judge Amy Jones, who oversees red flag cases in Marion County, issued the new guidance this week with Indianapolis police now having 48 hours to submit their filings, after which two judges will decide in two weeks whether to hold a hearing.

In April, Brandon Scott Hole, a 19-year-old former FedEx employee, allegedly shot and killed eight people at a facility in Indianapolis. It was reported shortly after the shooting that Hole had used two assault rifles he had legally purchased.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

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"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by evan price »

The only question left is, did he meet Applejack and spend eternity with her?

"I hope that I can be with Ap­ple­jack in the af­ter­life, my life has no mean­ing with­out her,” Hole wrote on his Facebook page at 10:19 p.m. Thursday, less than an hour before his rampage began, the outlet reported.


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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by Brian D. »

Yet another case where we'll never find out about the shooter's medication (and other mental health treatment) history.
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by WhyNot »

And that's the big problem with all red flag laws, is that they...
Is the OHIO red flag law provision s STILL in the pending Ohio budget legislation?

I remember the govs provisions were stuck into the budget, I did heard where something was taken out but I thought that referenced sentencing
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Re: Mass shooting at Fedex in Indianapolis

Post by JustaShooter »

WhyNot wrote:Is the OHIO red flag law provision s STILL in the pending Ohio budget legislation?

I remember the govs provisions were stuck into the budget, I did heard where something was taken out but I thought that referenced sentencing
I have asked before (though, can't recall if I asked in here or not) for some pointers into the budget bill to locate the red flag law provisions because I can't find them in any version of the bill I've looked at. I don't suppose you can help?
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