Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

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Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby rickt » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:44 am

I have mixed feelings about this but I do know I would be quite angry if rounds struck my house.

http://www.chroniclet.com/Local-News/2017/03/14/Township-residents-discuss-shooting-safety.html

Here's an Ohioan dealing with this issue on another forum:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/neighbor-shooting-directly-towards-my-home-just-hundreds-of-feet-away.848927/
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby WY_Not » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:27 am

NO. Same reason why towns shouldn't be allowed to. Creates an unmanageable patchwork of contradictions and gotchas.

If a stray bullet hits your home, there are already laws to deal with that.
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby rickt » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:38 am

WY_Not wrote:If a stray bullet hits your home, there are already laws to deal with that.


According to the article, only if it is intentional.
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby WY_Not » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:25 am

Looks like 2923.161(A)(1) covers it pretty clearly. Nothing in there about intentionally, simply knowingly.

rickt wrote:
WY_Not wrote:If a stray bullet hits your home, there are already laws to deal with that.


According to the article, only if it is intentional.
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby rickt » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:16 am

If someone puts a round into your home due to a ineffective backstop, it won't be "knowingly" and the person won't be charged.
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby WY_Not » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:43 am

Except nowhere in the ORC mentioned does it mention hitting anything being a requirement. Merely shooting at/towards someone's home would seem to be an offense.

rickt wrote:If someone puts a round into your home due to a ineffective backstop, it won't be "knowingly" and the person won't be charged.
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby rickt » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:58 am

Whether it hits the house or not, if due to an inadequate backstop it won't be "knowingly".
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby WY_Not » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:34 am

So, you are going to try and say that the shooter did not "know" that the person's house was right in front of them? :roll:

Backstop or no, adequate or no, he is shooting towards someone's house.

rickt wrote:Whether it hits the house or not, if due to an inadequate backstop it won't be "knowingly".
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:48 am

WY_Not wrote:So, you are going to try and say that the shooter did not "know" that the person's house was right in front of them? :roll:


That's not what it means.

2901.22(B)
(B) A person acts knowingly, regardless of purpose, when the person is aware that the person's conduct will probably cause a certain result or will probably be of a certain nature. A person has knowledge of circumstances when the person is aware that such circumstances probably exist. When knowledge of the existence of a particular fact is an element of an offense, such knowledge is established if a person subjectively believes that there is a high probability of its existence and fails to make inquiry or acts with a conscious purpose to avoid learning the fact.


Now, given that. A person shooting into a backstop and the backstop fails and the round goes into a person's house: Did the person knowingly shoot at or into the person's house?
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby WY_Not » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:28 pm

If it is just a wood pile with holes in it, I'd say yes. Actual solid berm, no.

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
WY_Not wrote:So, you are going to try and say that the shooter did not "know" that the person's house was right in front of them? :roll:


That's not what it means.

2901.22(B)
(B) A person acts knowingly, regardless of purpose, when the person is aware that the person's conduct will probably cause a certain result or will probably be of a certain nature. A person has knowledge of circumstances when the person is aware that such circumstances probably exist. When knowledge of the existence of a particular fact is an element of an offense, such knowledge is established if a person subjectively believes that there is a high probability of its existence and fails to make inquiry or acts with a conscious purpose to avoid learning the fact.


Now, given that. A person shooting into a backstop and the backstop fails and the round goes into a person's house: Did the person knowingly shoot at or into the person's house?
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby WestonDon » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:43 pm

No! Absolutely not. Townships can do zoning and that's it. I would suggest that if the good citizens of a densely populated township or area wish to live with the regulations of a municipality that they undertake the process of incorporating and become a village or city and leave the rest of us alone. I don't know what the process is but I suspect it would be an easier road than changing Ohio law.
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby Bruenor » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:53 pm

Another NO vote for townships having more power to regulate things. if I wanted some control freak running my life, I would have moved into a place with an HOA, instead of commuting so far to work like I currently do.
I live in a township, I could legally hunt/shoot on my property, but I know the neighbors houses are too close, and I do not have an adequate backstop to do so safely. Every time you pull the trigger you are responsible for every bullet that leaves the firearm, where it goes, and where it ends up. Know your target and what is beyond.

As for the thread on the highroad, I would go talk to the neighbor as well. I would think calling the sheriff on him repeatedly would give just him an ax to grind with me, where before he probably just wasn't thinking about what was behind his inadequate backstop.
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby Aesinsp » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:50 pm

Bruenor wrote:... if I wanted some control freak running my life, I would have moved into a place with an HOA, instead of commuting so far to work like I currently do...

Amen..Or I would not have married my wife, Glh.
Having said that-
The backstop & what is safely behind it is IMPERATIVE.
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby AlanM » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:39 am

This thread caused me to do a little research into Stow's shooting laws.
I had remembered from when I lived there that they had laws against even shooting across city territory, ie a corner of the boundarys.

I found this: https://www.mytownneo.com/news/20121226/new-firearms-legislation-prohibits-hunting-on-stow-owned-property

Although the new law prohibits any hunting whatsoever on city property, Zibritosky explained, it does permit hunting in the city under very specific conditions.

Secondly, a person can only hunt on a tract of land with 25 acres or more in contiguous property or by combining property. If a person is combining property, that total area can not have more than two homes on it. The hunter is also required to carry written permission from the corresponding property owners at all times.

Finally, Zibritosky noted the hunting code now features a specific, “complete buffer zone” of 300 feet or more from any boundary line, residence, vehicle, highway or other structure. Both the hunter and target need to be a minimum of 300 feet away before a weapon can be legally discharged.


Now, I don't know of many 25 acre plots of land in Stow.
I did some quick math.
An acre is 4840 square yards. 25 acres is 121,000 square yards.
Assuming a perfectly square plot of land. (Highly unlikely in Stow)
The square would be 347.8 yards on a side.
With a 100 yard "buffer zone" that would leave a square in the middle of 147.8 yards on a side that both the hunter and target need to be inside of. That doesn't count any 100 yard circles around any residence or other structure.

I'm pretty sure that makes hunting in Stow totally forbidden.
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Re: Should townships be allowed to regulate shooting?

Postby M-Quigley » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:47 am

Aesinsp wrote:
Bruenor wrote:... if I wanted some control freak running my life, I would have moved into a place with an HOA, instead of commuting so far to work like I currently do...

Amen..Or I would not have married my wife, Glh.
Having said that-
The backstop & what is safely behind it is IMPERATIVE.


Amen to both of the bolded comments. In the township where I live, we had someone from the city move into one of the houses available back when some realtor was able to sell 5 acre long and narrow lots (the regulation is now 20 minimum) Shortly after moving out here, they allegedly called the Sheriffs dept on my neighbor who was shooting in his back yard. The shooting was in the opposite direction from the new neighbors, they were complaining about the noise. Not just the noise, but that the fire was too rapid for there sensibilities. They thought it was incredible that someone could just shoot a gun without violating some law. The deputy allegedly basically told him if you don't like his target practice you're really going to be upset during deer season. They ended up moving. :roll:
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