Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWine

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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by docachna »

One more reason I'm glad we no longer live in the Buckeye....

Gotta wonder how long an LEO can detain someone on a traffic stop while they try to figure out his status to carry with no CHL. Especially if he knows good and well the necessary information is unlikely to be supplied via MDT or dispatch.....
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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by M-Quigley »

Last night on the WHIO-TV 11 pm news they opened the show with a segment on SB-215. I learned a lot from that segment that I didn't know, and hasn't been reported here. For example, the opening statement of the reporter covering the story was this: (any bolding or underlining is mine, for emphasis)
"Right now a gun reform bill is sitting on Gov. MIke Dewine's desk. If he signs it, the law will change how guns are bought in Ohio."
:shock:

Now at first I though Oh well, she just misspoke, saying bought when she should've said carried, but then she says something about the possibility that a background check would no longer be required, which has some gun shop owners worried. Now I know at least one dealer who has concerns about permitless cc, but only because he thinks proof of training should be at least required, either with a license or not. b.t.w. this dealer also sells training. I'm not saying I agree with this statement, only that it is at least relevant in the discussion, not of purchasing, but of how a handgun is used. The interview after the reporter makes the background statement is this:

"If I give a bad guy a gun, who are they, I mean, what might happen, right?" That's the way I look at it." Roger Harris, owner of Deadwood guns and ammo, Carlisle Ohio.

I mean, I was shocked. :shock: I had no idea that this bill would override Federal law on how the purchase of guns[/b] are purchased from federally licensed firearms dealers (assuming Mr. Harris is one) :roll: :roll:

The next person interviewed in a man on the street interview where the man says he thinks background checks should be required, and "if you're allowing violent criminals the right to own a firearm at will I think that's a problem." :roll:
The reporter then talked about the police being required to ask about a gun and gun shop owner said "It makes it a little difficult on them" and something about them being intimidated. Seriously? Many states, even anti gun states, don't have a notification requirement at all, period. It makes it difficult for a LEO to say the words, "Do you have a firearm on you?" Or "in your car?" :roll:

They then started interviewing people in the Oregon District in Dayton where a mass shooting occurred which killed 9 people. The murders were done by a guy with a rifle, the purchaser of the rifle passed a background check and then did a straw purchase sale to the murderer. There is no relevance to CC , except maybe that no civilians were carrying on that street that night, as almost all of them had been drinking. SB-215 won't change that anyway.

As terrible as that tragedy was, unlike the Pulse nightclub there were armed responders on the street that night (Dayton Police) who stopped the guy before the number of dead reached double digits. There was a study done that said in almost all mass shootings when there is an armed defender on or close to the scene the number of dead is usually single digits and when there isn't it can easily be double digits. In some documented cases the armed good guy/gal doesn't even have to actually hit the BG, the mere fact of a response can divert the attention of the BG and stop or delay the killing spree, until the BG is stopped.

Also there is this, from on the street interview.

Shaeli Spurlock from Dayton said, “I’m all for[b] owning guns[/b] like that’s your right, but we need to do it in a safe, responsible way that way people don’t get hurt.”


I had no idea that this bill affected OWNERSHIP of guns at all. :shock:

Don't misunderstand, I don't blame the woman, I have no idea what the reporter told her about the bill or what question she was asked before her response.

Since the subject should be concealed carry and not ownership, if you tell someone that putting out a fire when it first starts and is small it's usually better than waiting until the FD shows up and the place is fully involved they get that. Well the same is true with an armed GG available on the scene if a mass shooting occurs, just common sense. And just like a fire extinguisher or first aid kit or auto defib device it should just sit there until needed, not bothering anyone. It's just another piece of emergency equipment, for a specific purpose, one tool in a toolbox. I made that example recently to someone who was confused about the why of CC and she was instantly enlightened. She isn't going to start carrying herself but she now at least gets why some choose to CC.

Sorry that my train of thought got derailed. Anyway, the news story made me wonder how many in Dayton saw it and were ignorant of SB-215 beforehand.

UPDATE:

Last night WHIO didn't have the video up on their website, and I didn't see it this mn before I went to the trouble of typing segments of it out. :( Now they have actually put it on their website and so far it's the same as what I saw last night.

https://www.whio.com/news/local/bill-ma ... ARE32KKQI/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by Brian D. »

My mind keeps returning to the deficiency and ineptitude exhibited by those whose responsibility is to enter criminal convictions and other pertinent information into the appropriate databases. I can't get past those folks failing to do their damn jobs and never being held accountable for it.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by Wgonz »

The bill does NOT change how guns are purchased. The reporter is incorrect. You still need to either pass the federal NICS background check to purchase a firearm, or have a valid CCW in-hand. (Note: some dealers will not rely solely on the purchaser having a CCW and will require that the NICS pass before selling. This is entirely up to what the dealer wants to accept.). The bill ONLY applies to carrying. Instead of waiting to get a license to carry, the bill declares that anyone who is not already prohibited is deemed to have a license.

If you’re a current, legal, licensed carrier, only one thing changes: you will not have to “immediately” notify police that you have a CCW when stopped. However, you do need to respond correctly when asked. Basically, you can expect to always be asked. The bill eliminates the “judgement call” as to whether or not you notified the LEO fast enough.

If you are a current, illegally carrying prohibited person, you will STILL be an illegally carrying prohibited person. This bill does NOT get you anything.

If you are a NEW, non-prohibited carrier, you won’t have to wait until your CCW arrives to start carrying. In fact, if you don’t want to get a license, you won’t need to. I recommend you do anyway, but the timing won’t hold you back regarding carrying.

DeWine has until March 13th to either sign the bill, veto it, or do nothing. If he does nothing, it becomes law automatically. If he either signs it or does nothing, it will become law after 90 days. So it is not immediate. DO NOT start carrying now thinking it is law. You MUST wait until it actually goes into effect on Day 90.
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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by Brian D. »

Good summary, Wgonz. Maybe you should post more often. :)
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by TSiWRX »

From conax on The Armory Life Forums -
conax via The Armory Life Forums wrote: I scanned the Bill they passed and it looks to me as though you can't have access to a loaded gun in the car, can't have a loaded gun in the car, and it must be in separate compartments of a case, ammo here, gun there.
IOW, useless against carjackers, they'll just get away with your car and your firearm, too.
Typical Ohio BS. The new law sucks.
The US Constitution doesn't mention all these locked cases, illegal to access it, etc. This is hardly constitutional carry.
It's just a trap.
and
I looked at that thread- if you're a member there, post about the fact that you have no right to carry in the car or boat.
The gun can't be loaded or accessible, and will be a 4th class felony if you do.
Nobody mentions this, it seems, but me. People will be going to jail if they don't thoroughly read that lousy bill.....
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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by schmieg »

TSiWRX wrote:From conax on The Armory Life Forums -
conax via The Armory Life Forums wrote: I scanned the Bill they passed and it looks to me as though you can't have access to a loaded gun in the car, can't have a loaded gun in the car, and it must be in separate compartments of a case, ammo here, gun there.
IOW, useless against carjackers, they'll just get away with your car and your firearm, too.
Typical Ohio BS. The new law sucks.
The US Constitution doesn't mention all these locked cases, illegal to access it, etc. This is hardly constitutional carry.
It's just a trap.
and
I looked at that thread- if you're a member there, post about the fact that you have no right to carry in the car or boat.
The gun can't be loaded or accessible, and will be a 4th class felony if you do.
Nobody mentions this, it seems, but me. People will be going to jail if they don't thoroughly read that lousy bill.....
I think he needs to read 2923.111(B) et seq.
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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by JustaShooter »

schmieg wrote:
TSiWRX wrote:From conax on The Armory Life Forums -
conax via The Armory Life Forums wrote: I scanned the Bill they passed and it looks to me as though you can't have access to a loaded gun in the car, can't have a loaded gun in the car, and it must be in separate compartments of a case, ammo here, gun there.
IOW, useless against carjackers, they'll just get away with your car and your firearm, too.
Typical Ohio BS. The new law sucks.
The US Constitution doesn't mention all these locked cases, illegal to access it, etc. This is hardly constitutional carry.
It's just a trap.
and
I looked at that thread- if you're a member there, post about the fact that you have no right to carry in the car or boat.
The gun can't be loaded or accessible, and will be a 4th class felony if you do.
Nobody mentions this, it seems, but me. People will be going to jail if they don't thoroughly read that lousy bill.....
I think he needs to read 2923.111(B) et seq.
Exactly, as well as (A)(2) where "Qualified person" is defined. The bottom line is that under this bill if it becomes law anyone 21 and over, who is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Ohio or Federal law, that does not have anything in their background that would prevent them from getting a CHL, would be able to carry a concealed handgun or transport a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle anywhere in the state of Ohio that a person with a CHL can today.

TSiWRX, as you appear to be a member there, perhaps you can help educate them.

For what it's worth, I dislike the way they went about this change to Ohio law, I think it makes it more complicated and harder to follow that necessary. This issue is the single biggest misunderstanding I see regarding the bill - I see it in every forum and FB page/group I'm in.
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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by TSiWRX »

^ Thanks, @schmieg and @justashooter! :)

To be frank, @justashooter, the combo of my ESL and speed-reading got me on this one, too.
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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by Wgonz »

Wgonz wrote:…DeWine has until March 13th to either sign the bill, veto it, or do nothing. If he does nothing, it becomes law automatically. If he either signs it or does nothing, it will become law after 90 days. So it is not immediate. DO NOT start carrying now thinking it is law. You MUST wait until it actually goes into effect on Day 90.
CORRECTION: I believe the deadline is March 15th (not the 13th).
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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by JustaShooter »

Wgonz wrote:
Wgonz wrote:…DeWine has until March 13th to either sign the bill, veto it, or do nothing. If he does nothing, it becomes law automatically. If he either signs it or does nothing, it will become law after 90 days. So it is not immediate. DO NOT start carrying now thinking it is law. You MUST wait until it actually goes into effect on Day 90.
CORRECTION: I believe the deadline is March 15th (not the 13th).
I agree, I had forgotten about the 10 day time limit excluding Sundays.
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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by FormerNavy »

Running for re-election this year, my bet is DeWine lets it pass without signing it. That way he doesn't explicitly support it but doesn't {inappropriate language} off the pro-gun group as much as if he were to veto.

I think there has been uncharacteristic silence on this bill from his camp hasn't there?
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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by kcclark »

“A Republican permitless carry gun law will bring Ohio more death,” writer Craig Calcaterra asserts in a Tuesday Columbus Alive article. “Researchers have found that states with permitless carry laws have experienced an 11 percent increase in handgun homicide rates after enactment.”
The curious thing is, I couldn’t find their subhead-“worthy” assertion substantiated.
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/03/permit ... ted-study/
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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by Chuck »

Constitutional rights aren't subject to "researchers"
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Re: Weakened SB 215 (unlicensed carry) sent to Governor DeWi

Post by M-Quigley »

kcclark wrote:
“A Republican permitless carry gun law will bring Ohio more death,” writer Craig Calcaterra asserts in a Tuesday Columbus Alive article. “Researchers have found that states with permitless carry laws have experienced an 11 percent increase in handgun homicide rates after enactment.”
The curious thing is, I couldn’t find their subhead-“worthy” assertion substantiated.
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/03/permit ... ted-study/
I don't see why the author should even need to try to research what Craig Calcaterra was talking about in relation to an 11 % increase. Craig Calcaterra said it and he should be the one who should cite who the researchers are that he is talking about. If he can't do that he should be considered to just be making stuff up. Of course most in the MSM will ever question Craig Calcaterra on whatever he spews, as long as it's anti gun anti self defense. If he spouted 25 or 33 % very few in the MSM would care. It's why some of the most ridiculous anti gun quotes out there by anti gunners never get scrutinized. OTOH, if a pro gun pro self defense person quotes researchers or a study, most in the MSM will question the source, and if the source is legitimate will just ignore it, as it doesn't fit their agenda. :(
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