S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
'' Liberty wrote:
Where is the fix for this bill? Do I have to come down and give opposition testimony?
Yes you should do that.''
The problem with that is, if your position is correct, the opposition will hear it 1st handed and you just gave valuable intel to the opposition. Then, they talk it up to the ever increasingly ''malleable'' friendlies
Where is the fix for this bill? Do I have to come down and give opposition testimony?
Yes you should do that.''
The problem with that is, if your position is correct, the opposition will hear it 1st handed and you just gave valuable intel to the opposition. Then, they talk it up to the ever increasingly ''malleable'' friendlies
Acquisitions thus far:
-Slingshot
-Butter knife
-Soda straw and peas
-Sharpened pencil
-Newspaper roll
--water balloon (*diversionary*)
Yeah, I'm that good
-Slingshot
-Butter knife
-Soda straw and peas
-Sharpened pencil
-Newspaper roll
--water balloon (*diversionary*)
Yeah, I'm that good
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
The fact is the fix is in the works
Apparently not fast enough for some folks
Cheap shots don't help anything
Apparently not fast enough for some folks
Cheap shots don't help anything
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
I am not just being impatient. You guys are going to the state house and testifying that the bill will do this and that when it will not as it is written, and you posted that you wanted people to go to support it in order to get it voted out of committee when there has not been any amendments that I can find. Things have to be fixed in committee. As is, it is a bad bill. It makes Ohio law worse, much worse.
The guy from Ohio Gun Owners testified that he took another state's stand your ground law and gave it to the sponsor. That makes sense to me because it looks like someone just took some wording from another state's laws and stuck it in Ohio law without considering how it interacts with other parts of Ohio law or whether it would result in the same outcome as it does in the other state. That is sloppy, sloppy, sloppy! You can't just take paragraphs from another state's laws and paste them over some of our laws and expect it to work the same way it works in the other state--especially when it is pasted over top, thus deleting, the provision that was just added to Ohio law that requires the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that defendants did not act in self defense.
Moreover, the bill is also waaaay to complicated, and, as I wrote earlier, there are other problems with it taking away existing rights of citizens and empowering law enforcement to make unlawful arrests.
All that is necessary to accomplish what you want would be a clean bill that deletes the current language requiring a duty to retreat and adds language requiring a finding of either probable cause or clear and convincing evidence that the defendant did not act in self-defense (upon assertion of such affirmative defense) at the preliminary hearing (municipal court level), by the grand jury and upon motion to dismiss at the county level in order for the proceedings to proceed.
The guy from Ohio Gun Owners testified that he took another state's stand your ground law and gave it to the sponsor. That makes sense to me because it looks like someone just took some wording from another state's laws and stuck it in Ohio law without considering how it interacts with other parts of Ohio law or whether it would result in the same outcome as it does in the other state. That is sloppy, sloppy, sloppy! You can't just take paragraphs from another state's laws and paste them over some of our laws and expect it to work the same way it works in the other state--especially when it is pasted over top, thus deleting, the provision that was just added to Ohio law that requires the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that defendants did not act in self defense.
Moreover, the bill is also waaaay to complicated, and, as I wrote earlier, there are other problems with it taking away existing rights of citizens and empowering law enforcement to make unlawful arrests.
All that is necessary to accomplish what you want would be a clean bill that deletes the current language requiring a duty to retreat and adds language requiring a finding of either probable cause or clear and convincing evidence that the defendant did not act in self-defense (upon assertion of such affirmative defense) at the preliminary hearing (municipal court level), by the grand jury and upon motion to dismiss at the county level in order for the proceedings to proceed.
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
Chuck wrote: Cheap shots don't help anything
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
<<I am not just being impatient. You guys are going to the state house and testifying that the bill will do this and that when it will not as it is written, and you posted that you wanted people to go to support it in order to get it voted out of committee when there has not been any amendments that I can find. Things have to be fixed in committee. As is, it is a bad bill. It makes Ohio law worse, much worse.>>
The sponsor's legislative aide called me on 12/10, the day before the last hearing and told me that LSC is working on our amendment. Things don''t happen overnight. The bill has had three hearings so far, the sponsor and two proponent hearings. The next step is opponent hearings. We are staying on top of this and I anticipate the amendment to be entered before the bill goes to a vote.
On the tort side of things, the bill calls for a pretrial hearing where the shooter claiming self defense files a claim which establishes a prima facia case of self defense. This motion will be granted unless the people trying to sue the shooter can provide substantial evidence that the shooting was not self defense. If they can't do that, the tort action stops there thus eliminating possibly of years of court actions and money spent, not to mention the emotional toll, by the self defense shooter. The pretrial hearing is also on the criminal side of the coin and like I said an amendment is in the works.
We were notified of the last hearing two days before the hearing. Not much time. I am registering complaints qand requesting more time on hearing notices with both the committee chair and the bill sponsor (who is also on that committee).
The sponsor's legislative aide called me on 12/10, the day before the last hearing and told me that LSC is working on our amendment. Things don''t happen overnight. The bill has had three hearings so far, the sponsor and two proponent hearings. The next step is opponent hearings. We are staying on top of this and I anticipate the amendment to be entered before the bill goes to a vote.
On the tort side of things, the bill calls for a pretrial hearing where the shooter claiming self defense files a claim which establishes a prima facia case of self defense. This motion will be granted unless the people trying to sue the shooter can provide substantial evidence that the shooting was not self defense. If they can't do that, the tort action stops there thus eliminating possibly of years of court actions and money spent, not to mention the emotional toll, by the self defense shooter. The pretrial hearing is also on the criminal side of the coin and like I said an amendment is in the works.
We were notified of the last hearing two days before the hearing. Not much time. I am registering complaints qand requesting more time on hearing notices with both the committee chair and the bill sponsor (who is also on that committee).
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
Thank you for the update. I just did not want it to be passed out of committee without amendments.
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
Additional update:
The amendment was sent to us for approval/comment/revisions, and it was missing a couple things.
Those were communicated to Senator Johnson's office, who found them "perfectly reasonable" and sent it back to LSC for drafting.
The same thing with the House bill, HB 381
I am disappointed with Liberty's sudden lack of response to my latest PM.
We were doing fine until I told him we had the amendment to proofread
It was my intention to get his input before we responded to Senator Johnson's office.
He just stopped responding; I hope nothing happened to him and he is OK
The amendment was sent to us for approval/comment/revisions, and it was missing a couple things.
Those were communicated to Senator Johnson's office, who found them "perfectly reasonable" and sent it back to LSC for drafting.
The same thing with the House bill, HB 381
I am disappointed with Liberty's sudden lack of response to my latest PM.
We were doing fine until I told him we had the amendment to proofread
It was my intention to get his input before we responded to Senator Johnson's office.
He just stopped responding; I hope nothing happened to him and he is OK
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
How are the fixes to SB237 coming along? I've been a bit out of the loop recently due to increased workload at work.
Zeko
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
Dozens gathered at the Ohio Statehouse for a hearing on a couple of proposed gun laws in the Buckeye State. One would raise the minimum age to buy any gun to 21. Another proposal would allow a person to shoot to kill in public, even when there's a clear and safe alternate.
The Ohio Chapter of Moms Demand Action and Students Demand Action for Gun Sense in America both testified against the Stand Your Ground Bill on Tuesday.
Riveting.
Might as well call them "Bitter Divorcées against Patriarchy".
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Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
I read some of the "opponent" testimony, and it sounds like the same old same old . . . What I'm wondering about is whether any of the fixes to SB237 I've read about have actually made it into the bill.
Zeko
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legisl ... 133-SB-383" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I received an alert from NRA/ILA that SB 383 / HB 796 needs our support. I searched and didn’t see this one exactly mentioned here but I assume it’s related to the above bills? This appears to expand no duty to retreat to anywhere you are legally allowed to be.
I received an alert from NRA/ILA that SB 383 / HB 796 needs our support. I searched and didn’t see this one exactly mentioned here but I assume it’s related to the above bills? This appears to expand no duty to retreat to anywhere you are legally allowed to be.
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
Senate Bill 383 does eliminate the duty to retreat from anywhere one has a legal right to be. According to BFA's website, it has now passed out of Senate committee to the full Senate. Maybe there's hope . . .
zeko
zeko
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
Let's hope they pass it with a veto proof majority and there are no poison pills included at the end.zeko wrote:Senate Bill 383 does eliminate the duty to retreat from anywhere one has a legal right to be. According to BFA's website, it has now passed out of Senate committee to the full Senate. Maybe there's hope . . .
zeko
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
It's only related in that it removes the duty to retreat anywhere you are legally allowed to be. It's a clean bill that does nothing more. The above bills are more comprehensive, complicated, and controversial because of the additional provisions and protections they provide. Unfortunately, they are stuck in committee and are likely to go nowhere. This bill on the other hand at least has a chance.Klingon00 wrote:https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legisl ... 133-SB-383
I received an alert from NRA/ILA that SB 383 / HB 796 needs our support. I searched and didn’t see this one exactly mentioned here but I assume it’s related to the above bills? This appears to expand no duty to retreat to anywhere you are legally allowed to be.
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Re: S.B. 237: No duty to retreat
Watched ch.7 Dayton news tonight and Dayton mayor along with her chief of police was pushing back against the bill. Usual anti-gun, blood will run in the streets. Chief of police has no backbone. Does what he's told.