S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

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rickt
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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

Post by rickt »

Here's a more detailed article.
Gov. Mike DeWine said Monday that his administration is drawing up “red-flag” legislation that would allow authorities to confiscate guns from those deemed to be a threat to themselves or others.

DeWine is taking up the banner for an issue unsuccessfully pushed by his predecessor, fellow Republican Gov. John Kasich, during the final months of his administration.

"I’ve challenged our team to come back with something in the area of red-flag legislation that can pass,” the governor told reporters Monday afternoon. But, he added, “We need to have something that can actually pass, so that’s certainly something that’s part of the criteria.”
https://www.cleveland.com/politics/2019 ... -guns.html
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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

Post by WestonDon »

It shouldn't be too difficult to get to a law that can pass. The path is clearly marked in the constitution.
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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

Post by kcclark »

So I wake up this morning to hear the radio news say Dewine is pushing a red flag law. Then I see The Dispatch says somebody in Dewine's office told BFA that Dewine misspoke but Dewine's press secretary says that is not true. A sad circus.
In a Tuesday email to members, Dean Rieck, executive director of the Buckeye Firearms Assocation, said the group contacted administration officials to express their alarm. "We have been told that the governor misspoke when pressed by the media about red flag laws," he wrote.

"And we have been assured that there is NO red flag bill under consideration by this administration and there will NOT be one."

DeWine did not misspeak and his staff is indeed working to draft a "red flag" bill, said Dan Tierney, the first-year Republican's press secretary.
https://www.dispatch.com/news/20190430/ ... egislation
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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

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Raise gas taxe$
Raise outdoors fee$
Red flag law$ (or whatever he decides to call it...SAME THING)

...are there any more (D) sponsored & sought after positions, initiatives coming? Do I pass the antacids again? And again?
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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

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Calling all Ohio CLEOs...time to decide which side of the fence you're on... what "protect and defend" means...
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

Post by bignflnut »

The Buckeye Firearms Association approached the issue differently and informed its members that the governor misspoke when he used the term "red flag," suggesting that this legislation would be different than other states, according to the Columbus Dispatch.
Whew. That's a relief.
Here I thought it was the trendy thing to do, so a politician said he was for it...but, not to worry...it's different this time... the spokespeople just don't know how.

#Leadership


From a related press release:
We have been assured that there is NO current red flag bill drafted and we have been helping the governor explore options for safety and due process. For many years, we have clearly expressed our opposition to any law that violates due process or infringes on Second Amendment rights. We opposed former Gov. Kasich's red flag law. And we will continue to oppose any such bill.
It's called SB19, BFA! Get a damn clue!
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

Post by JustaShooter »

bignflnut wrote:[From a related press release:
We have been assured that there is NO current red flag bill drafted and we have been helping the governor explore options for safety and due process. For many years, we have clearly expressed our opposition to any law that violates due process or infringes on Second Amendment rights. We opposed former Gov. Kasich's red flag law. And we will continue to oppose any such bill.
It's called SB19, BFA!
Actually, no. In context, that means there is no current red flag bill drafted *by the governor's team*.
bignflnut wrote:Get a damn clue!
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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

Post by bignflnut »

Agree to disagree.
The release misleads those who have just tuned into the discussion because of the Governor's comments.
There is an ERPO on the table. Cut and dried. (This is the aforementioned clue, btw, which I brought to the discussion, and therefore possess, thanks for playing.)
The Governor doesn't draft legislation. He can only support it. He has endorsed the general concept of SB 19 and the release invites those who recently tuned in to tune back out. Inappropriate and deceptive.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

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bignflnut wrote:Agree to disagree.
The release misleads those who have just tuned into the discussion because of the Governor's comments.
There is an ERPO on the table. Cut and dried. (This is the aforementioned clue, btw, which I brought to the discussion, and therefore possess, thanks for playing.)
The Governor doesn't draft legislation. He can only support it. He has endorsed the general concept of SB 19 and the release invites those who recently tuned in to tune back out. Inappropriate and deceptive.
The Governor certainly can draft legislation; he just can't submit it without a legislative supporter. Once the legislature takes over, the Governor can only put pressure on lawmakers to pass it and not make drastic changes.
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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

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schmieg wrote: The Governor certainly can draft legislation; he just can't submit it without a legislative supporter. Once the legislature takes over, the Governor can only put pressure on lawmakers to pass it and not make drastic changes.
So could OFCC, BFA, the ACLU, Schmieg, his mom, or anybody else....so what?

The declaration that the Governor hasn't currently hand drafted his own preferred ERPO is to be some great comfort in the face of his general conceptual endorsement?
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

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bignflnut wrote:
schmieg wrote: The Governor certainly can draft legislation; he just can't submit it without a legislative supporter. Once the legislature takes over, the Governor can only put pressure on lawmakers to pass it and not make drastic changes.
So could OFCC, BFA, the ACLU, Schmieg, his mom, or anybody else....so what?

The declaration that the Governor hasn't currently hand drafted his own preferred ERPO is to be some great comfort in the face of his general conceptual endorsement?
The "conceptual endorsement" from the Governor's office opposes the objectionable and problematic characteristics of the ERPO laws that have been passed in other states. If his office stays that course, resulting legislation would have to be evaluated on its own as it would be something totally different.
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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

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schmieg wrote: The "conceptual endorsement" from the Governor's office opposes the objectionable and problematic characteristics of the ERPO laws that have been passed in other states. If his office stays that course, resulting legislation would have to be evaluated on its own as it would be something totally different.
Right. If legislation was proposed that confiscated the guns of the citizenry while offering ACTUAL due process prior to confiscation, it wouldn't be a "red flag" / ERPO bill. It would "be something totally different", as you say. Perhaps we could deem it "Green Flag Laws", as it would economically devastate gun-owners Rights, by paying lawyers.

From a few posts ago:
"[url=
https://www.cleveland.com/politics/2019 ... -guns.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;]I’ve challenged[/url] our team to come back with something in the area of red-flag legislation that can pass,” the governor told reporters Monday afternoon. But, he added, “We need to have something that can actually pass, so that’s certainly something that’s part of the criteria.”
The governor's criteria, being that a bill "that can actually pass", isn't substantially different, as anything could "actually pass", conceptually. He didn't rule out S.B. 19 on the basis of it's actual passage. We can assume that if it did pass, he would sign it, according to his criteria.

What we heard was Dewine loudly say SQUISH and then backpedal in an attempt to turn down the volume.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

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bignflnut wrote:
schmieg wrote: The "conceptual endorsement" from the Governor's office opposes the objectionable and problematic characteristics of the ERPO laws that have been passed in other states. If his office stays that course, resulting legislation would have to be evaluated on its own as it would be something totally different.
Right. If legislation was proposed that confiscated the guns of the citizenry while offering ACTUAL due process prior to confiscation, it wouldn't be a "red flag" / ERPO bill. It would "be something totally different", as you say. Perhaps we could deem it "Green Flag Laws", as it would economically devastate gun-owners Rights, by paying lawyers.

From a few posts ago:
"[url=
https://www.cleveland.com/politics/2019 ... -guns.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;]I’ve challenged[/url] our team to come back with something in the area of red-flag legislation that can pass,” the governor told reporters Monday afternoon. But, he added, “We need to have something that can actually pass, so that’s certainly something that’s part of the criteria.”
The governor's criteria, being that a bill "that can actually pass", isn't substantially different, as anything could "actually pass", conceptually. He didn't rule out S.B. 19 on the basis of it's actual passage. We can assume that if it did pass, he would sign it, according to his criteria.

What we heard was Dewine loudly say SQUISH and then backpedal in an attempt to turn down the volume.
The legislature has been loathe to put new burdens on firearms, unlike in many other states. I seriously doubt that a standard ERPO would pass in Ohio at the moment. Unless you have input or suggestions for such a bill, complaining about something that currently doesn't exist is just complaining for the sake of complaining.
-- Mike

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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

Post by JEaton »

bignflnut wrote:Right. If legislation was proposed that confiscated the guns of the citizenry while offering ACTUAL due process prior to confiscation, it wouldn't be a "red flag" / ERPO bill. It would "be something totally different", as you say.
I think this is where most of the problem comes from. The media and the anti-gunners are really good at 'labeling', just see 'stand your ground', 'shoot first', 'gunshow loophole'. The term 'red flag' is just a 'marketing term' used by the media and others and has no legal definition beyond being loosely related to terrible laws that have passed elsewhere.

In the simplest terms, it is like saying 'good music'. What that means to me is likely totally different then what it means to you or someone else.

The fact is Ohio already has a great 'red flag' law with the multiple protection orders that can apply to an individual and include removal of guns if the judge deems that correct. To the emergency hospitalization laws which do even better then FL or the other states by not just removing access to firearms they have today, but first removing the ability to harm any others and any method of self harm and then immediately involving the mental health professionals which are needed if they are ever have a chance at being returned to be a functioning member of society.

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Re: S.B. 19: Extreme Risk Protection Order

Post by bignflnut »

House Democrats have managed to increase their clout in the Ohio Statehouse in recent months, thanks to an alliance Minority Leader Emilia Sykes, of Akron, has formed with Republican House Speaker Larry Householder. Sykes and Householder over the past week have rolled out bipartisan legislation on topics including infant mortality, drug addiction, broadband access and fighting domestic violence.

SNIP


Asked about the interest in a red-flag law from both House Democrats and DeWine, Householder said: “A sticking point is when you take a firearm away from folks who have every legal right to possess one without due process, that is a huge problem. So, I would be interested in hearing what their proposals are. And again, we’re more than willing to listen.”

Republicans, meanwhile on Wednesday held their fourth committee hearing on HB 178, which has the support of Second Amendment activists while law enforcement and gun-control groups are opposed.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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