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SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:22 am
by rickt
S. B. No. 279 - Senators Tavares, Sykes.
Cosponsors: Senators Thomas, Skindell, Schiavoni, Williams, Brown.

To amend sections 2923.125, 2923.13, 2923.14, and 2923.25 and to enact section 2923.191 of the Revised Code to prohibit a person from improperly storing or leaving a firearm if the person knows that a minor is able to gain access to the firearm and to provide criminal penalties, including forfeiture of firearms, if a minor gains unauthorized access to an improperly stored firearm.
https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legisl ... 132-SB-279

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:20 am
by jeep45238
Isn't there already an obligation to prevent unauthorized access to firearms? Or am I imagining things?

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:29 am
by JustaShooter
jeep45238 wrote:Isn't there already an obligation to prevent unauthorized access to firearms? Or am I imagining things?
The only current law in Ohio specific to minors and firearms deals with "furnishing" a firearm to a minor (or a handgun to someone under 21), thereby criminalizing an action. This is quite different - it criminalizes the *lack* of an action, failing to prevent access to a firearm by a minor.

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:45 am
by djthomas
Texas has long had a similar statute and it seems to be working alright.

The one thing that's absolutely unconstitutional is this little bit:
Upon indictment for a violation of this section, a person charged with violating this section shall forfeit all firearms in the person's possession to the state or a political subdivision pursuant to Chapter 2981. of the Revised Code.
Forfeit upon indictment? Sorry, but I don't think so, bucko.

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:00 am
by Tru-Heathen
djthomas wrote:Texas has long had a similar statute and it seems to be working alright.

The one thing that's absolutely unconstitutional is this little bit:
Upon indictment for a violation of this section, a person charged with violating this section shall forfeit all firearms in the person's possession to the state or a political subdivision pursuant to Chapter 2981. of the Revised Code.
Forfeit upon indictment? Sorry, but I don't think so, bucko.
Happened to a friend who was(wrongly) charged with domestic violence. He was told to unlock his safe or they'd "open it for him".

He did get all his firearms back after his case was dropped. The Police department wanted to hem & haw about when he would get them;
his attorney made them "personally carry all of them to his car and load them into the trunk".

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:34 am
by djthomas
Tru-Heathen wrote:Happened to a friend who was(wrongly) charged with domestic violence. He was told to unlock his safe or they'd "open it for him".
Ah but there's a difference between having to surrender your firearms for safekeeping upon being charged versus having to forfeit them. Once you forfeit them, they're gone, regardless of outcome in the case.

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:16 pm
by TSiWRX
So, what happens to the minor - and the parents/legal guardians - in those cases (rare as they may be) of successful armed self-defense from home-invaders?

In 2010, a then 15 year-old Texas boy used his father's AR15 (the parent was a municipal deputy) to defend himself and his younger sister versus a pair of adult home invaders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLhp6OGq2ko" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OK, so I cherry-picked that one: I wanted an example where that demonically evil AR15 was used. But we all know that there are many more incidents which occur where the minor successfully employs all sorts of firearms, from 12-gauge shotguns to .38 caliber revolvers, to defend themselves and/or their loved ones.

As JustaShooter points out, as the new law criminalizes the lack of an action, what happens in these cases of legitimate self-defense?

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:31 pm
by JediSkipdogg
TSiWRX wrote:So, what happens to the minor - and the parents/legal guardians - in those cases (rare as they may be) of successful armed self-defense from home-invaders?

In 2010, a then 15 year-old Texas boy used his father's AR15 (the parent was a municipal deputy) to defend himself and his younger sister versus a pair of adult home invaders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLhp6OGq2ko" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OK, so I cherry-picked that one: I wanted an example where that demonically evil AR15 was used. But we all know that there are many more incidents which occur where the minor successfully employs all sorts of firearms, from 12-gauge shotguns to .38 caliber revolvers, to defend themselves and/or their loved ones.

As JustaShooter points out, as the new law criminalizes the lack of an action, what happens in these cases of legitimate self-defense?


The way I read it is if it is locked in a safe, and the minor has the combination to the safe, that is legal. It would only be illegal if the firearm is unsecured. But if you secure it (aka lock it somewhere) and give the minor the password, the exception applies.

Also, there is an exception if used in self defense as well.

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:54 pm
by TSiWRX
^ Gotcha. Thank you! :)

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:55 am
by rickt
Tavares (D)
Sykes (D)

Thomas (D)
Skindell (D)
Schiavoni (D)
Williams (D)
Brown (D)

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:39 am
by WhyNot
ah yes! The darkened heart beats. Devil really IS in the details. Well , who doesn't want the safeties of the kiddies?

L@@k at who sponsored it, and the suspect timing...ITS A TRICK!!

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:45 am
by jeep45238
WhyNot wrote: L@@k at who sponsored it, and the suspect timing...ITS A TRICK!!
Eh?

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:32 am
by WhyNot
jeep45238 wrote:
WhyNot wrote: L@@k at who sponsored it, and the suspect timing...ITS A TRICK!!
Eh?
Yes exactly. Very plain. Not difficult to understand but, these actors (D), (D), (D) and (D) have other bills up too. This bill with it's flaws as others ^^ have pointed out is at best an elaborate ruse

Re: SB 279: Prevent minor from gaining access to firearms

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:38 pm
by Cosmos
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