H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

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H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby rickt » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:30 am

H. B. No. 425 - Representative Wiggam (R).
Cosponsors: Representatives Kick (R), Antani (R), Lang (R), Merrin (R), Becker (R), Riedel (R), Vitale (R), Manchester (R), Powell (R), Koehler (R), Scherer (R), Romanchuk (R).

To amend sections 2923.12, 2923.126, 2923.128, and 2923.16 of the Revised Code to modify the requirement that a concealed handgun licensee must notify a law enforcement officer that the licensee is authorized to carry a concealed handgun and is carrying a concealed handgun when stopped.


https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA133-HB-425
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby JustaShooter » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:56 am

Other than the fact that this doesn't completely repeal notification, there is one big problem with it. Under current law I am not required to carry a 2nd form of ID with me when carrying concealed, only my CHL. Under this bill, I will now be required to not only keep my DL or State ID with me when carrying even when not driving, but will be required to display the DL or ID as part of notification.
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby Jim-in-Toledo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:42 am

JustaShooter wrote:Other than the fact that this doesn't completely repeal notification, there is one big problem with it. Under current law I am not required to carry a 2nd form of ID with me when carrying concealed, only my CHL. Under this bill, I will now be required to not only keep my DL or State ID with me when carrying even when not driving, but will be required to display the DL or ID as part of notification.


Why would a CHL not qualify as a "State ID" ?
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby JustaShooter » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:29 am

Jim-in-Toledo wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:Other than the fact that this doesn't completely repeal notification, there is one big problem with it. Under current law I am not required to carry a 2nd form of ID with me when carrying concealed, only my CHL. Under this bill, I will now be required to not only keep my DL or State ID with me when carrying even when not driving, but will be required to display the DL or ID as part of notification.


Why would a CHL not qualify as a "State ID" ?

The bill says you must do all of the following:

(a) Display the person's concealed handgun license or orally inform the law enforcement officer that the person has been issued a concealed handgun license;
(b) Display the person's driver's license or state identification card;
(c) Disclose that the person then is carrying a concealed handgun;

Since the bill draws a clear distinction between your CHL and your "driver's license or state identification card" I don't think you could make that argument. And I don't think it would hold up anyway since "state identification card" has a very specific meaning. It might be different if it said "or other form of ID", but even then I doubt it.
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby Jim-in-Toledo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:02 am

JustaShooter wrote:
Jim-in-Toledo wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:Other than the fact that this doesn't completely repeal notification, there is one big problem with it. Under current law I am not required to carry a 2nd form of ID with me when carrying concealed, only my CHL. Under this bill, I will now be required to not only keep my DL or State ID with me when carrying even when not driving, but will be required to display the DL or ID as part of notification.


Why would a CHL not qualify as a "State ID" ?

The bill says you must do all of the following:

(a) Display the person's concealed handgun license or orally inform the law enforcement officer that the person has been issued a concealed handgun license;
(b) Display the person's driver's license or state identification card;
(c) Disclose that the person then is carrying a concealed handgun;

Since the bill draws a clear distinction between your CHL and your "driver's license or state identification card" I don't think you could make that argument. And I don't think it would hold up anyway since "state identification card" has a very specific meaning. It might be different if it said "or other form of ID", but even then I doubt it.

Also, after looking at:
https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA133-HB-49

as referenced in https://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=92929

It seems that a CHL is a COUNTY issued license, NOT a State issued one. :oops:
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby OhioPaints » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:51 pm

The CHL is a state document issued by the Sheriff, just like the driver's license is a state document issued by your local county contractor. The BMV even lists the CHL as an acceptable document.

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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby JustaShooter » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:48 pm

OhioPaints wrote:The CHL is a state document issued by the Sheriff, just like the driver's license is a state document issued by your local county contractor. The BMV even lists the CHL as an acceptable document.

Ken

However true that might be, from the way the law reads it would not meet requirement (b).
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby Randymp » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:25 pm

Is this bill possibly going to be voted on after constitutional carry bill passes removing the duty to notify, so that the duty to notify would still be a duty for those with CHL? And maybe amended to include constitutional carry?
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby Mustang380gal » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:27 pm

Randymp wrote:Is this bill possibly going to be voted on after constitutional carry bill passes removing the duty to notify, so that the duty to notify would still be a duty for those with CHL? And maybe amended to include constitutional carry?


I saw Wiggam at our Legislative Advocacy Day. He told me that this was intended to be passed only if Constitutional Carry was not going to make it. He wanted the notification weakened. Politically, it sounds as if total repeal is not real popular; Wiggam hoped to take some of the teeth out of notification.

I have to give him credit for trying.
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:21 am

Mustang380gal wrote:I saw Wiggam at our Legislative Advocacy Day. He told me that this was intended to be passed only if Constitutional Carry was not going to make it. He wanted the notification weakened. Politically, it sounds as if total repeal is not real popular; Wiggam hoped to take some of the teeth out of notification.

I have to give him credit for trying.

If you have opportunity to speak with him again, encourage him to remove requirement (b) Display the person's driver's license or state identification card; since we are already required to show our DL when operating a motor vehicle, but are otherwise *not* currently required to carry a DL or state identification card with us when carrying.
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby rickt » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:35 pm

This bill is going to have its third hearing on 2/19/2020. It's had two previous hearings in the last two weeks. Three hearings in three weeks is lightning speed in the Ohio General Assembly.
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby Morne » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:51 pm

rickt wrote:This bill is going to have its third hearing on 2/19/2020. It's had two previous hearings in the last two weeks. Three hearings in three weeks is lightning speed in the Ohio General Assembly.

I will attend the upcoming hearing and hopefully be able to speak about the importance of notification REPEAL.

Stay tuned.
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby rickt » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:08 am

How has the political climate changed since last session's HB 142 died in the Senate after passing in the House? We would all like to see notification go away but is this a situation where our preferred outcome and what is achievable aren't the same? I submitted written testimony on HB 142, some of which was quoted by Gongwer News Service and BFA.
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby Chuck » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:04 am

This Wednesday we are expecting to see an amendment to make this bill completely remove notification.
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Re: H.B. 425: Modifies notification requirement

Postby rickt » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:49 am

I watched the hearing video and no amendment or substitute bill was introduced. Interesting how a bunch on anti testimony was submitted as if they knew the content of the amendment and then when the amendment was not submitted, they bailed from the hearing.
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