Delaware Renewal issue

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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Mon May 04, 2015 4:50 pm

cashman966 wrote:...Apparently the county prosecutor contacted him after receiving an email from Dave. Which kind of blindsided me as no one made any mention of intervening on my behalf...


OMG! I'm SO sorry, seriously! I forgot to update the thread. :oops:

Two things:

One, give me a minute to post my letter.

Two, please DO contact Sheriff Sabin. I won't. I promise. At least, not yet. :oops: :P
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Mon May 04, 2015 5:31 pm

Okay, here is what I sent. This was sent to the county prosecutor and cc'd to the sheriff's "sheriffinfo" and "ccw" email addresses.

Dear Ms. O'Brien-

An acquaintance of mine came to the Delaware county Sheriff's office to renew his Concealed Handgun License today.

The lady processing his renewal noted that his existing license expired on April 19, then seized that license and refused to return it.

He reminded her of the 30-day grace period for expired licenses but the lady told him that was no longer the case as of March 23.

As you well know, the passage of HB 234 did NOT do away with the 30-day grace period. He is now unable to carry concealed until the Sheriff processes his renewal. This puts him at risk of harm and MAY make the county liable for such harm, due to the unlawful seizure of a perfectly valid CHL. It may also put the county at risk of a lawsuit.

I have contacted dozens of municipal corporations, townships, park districts and agricultural societies over the last few years and have always been proud to say that central Ohio has the 'best educated' law enforcement agencies in the state when it comes to open carry and concealed carry laws.

I'm sure he would make a special trip this weekend or VERY early next week to pick up his expired-but-valid CHL or his renewal.

Thank you!

"MWSY"
May 1, 2015


And here is the reply I received from the sheriff:

"MWSY":

We returned a gentleman’s license today and our supervisors’ are reviewing the incident and any training shortfall’s we may have internally. I am glad to say that this is a rare occurrence in this office and we have a reputation of being compliant and timely in regards to requests for CHL permits and Federal Firearms licenses. Thanks for bringing this to our attention and in the future don’t hesitate to contact us directly if you have any questions or concerns.

Sheriff Russell L. Martin, C.L.E.E.
Delaware County Sheriff’s Office
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby Brian D. » Mon May 04, 2015 6:23 pm

What does "C.L.E.E." stand for? Every now and again I still get stumped by a new-to-me term such as this.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby Brian D. » Mon May 04, 2015 6:31 pm

Looked it up myself. Certified Law Enforcement Executive may be the answer. Is that a term an agency gets to use after becoming "accredited" ? Asking honestly here.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby djthomas » Mon May 04, 2015 6:42 pm

Brian D. wrote:Looked it up myself. Certified Law Enforcement Executive may be the answer. Is that a term an agency gets to use after becoming "accredited" ? Asking honestly here.

No - it's an individual certification that any supervisory officer can pursue. It has nothing to do with the agency's accreditation status. It's really about transitioning from the job of beat cop to being a manager. You know, the fun stuff every cop loves to do but frankly wasn't taught in the academy. Things like handling employee hirings and discipline. Managing budgets. Developing and implementing policies and procedures. Public records laws. Metrics... Irate concealed carriers and their friends, though seriously I think public grievances are covered as in what to do when the community organizers show up at your door. ;)

It's not a requirement for advancement but it's most useful for those who aspire to executive roles (as the name implies) - chief of police, public safety directors things like that where one looks to get hired into an agency at the top rather than be promoted from within.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby Brian D. » Mon May 04, 2015 7:16 pm

DJ, some years ago I rebranded myself as a Conflagration Suppression Technologist' but the term has yet to become widely accepted. Meanwhile I try to remember our mission statement which reads "Fire bad, water good" and do my best to live up to it. :mrgreen:
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby djthomas » Mon May 04, 2015 9:10 pm

Brian D. wrote:I try to remember our mission statement which reads "Fire bad, water good" and do my best to live up to it.

Fire is bad. As to water, your mileage may vary when it's a class B, C, D or K fire though. But hey, I'm just a cop. All that means is I show up at the fire (and usually put it out) while the firemen are still fighting over whose turn it is to drive the truck. :mrgreen:
Never ask if you can carry at a non-posted place, but always ask why you cannot at one that is!
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby cashman966 » Mon May 04, 2015 10:03 pm

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
cashman966 wrote:...Apparently the county prosecutor contacted him after receiving an email from Dave. Which kind of blindsided me as no one made any mention of intervening on my behalf...


OMG! I'm SO sorry, seriously! I forgot to update the thread. :oops:

Two things:

One, give me a minute to post my letter.

Two, please DO contact Sheriff Sabin. I won't. I promise. At least, not yet. :oops: :P


Not a huge issue, just a little surprized.

So anyway, here is my most recent draft, I am open to any suggestions or corrections. but this is what I plan on sending tomorrow afternoon.


Sheriff Sabin,

I am writing you as your name came up in the course my recent concealed handgun license renewal in Delaware County.

I submitted my renewal application on Friday May 1, 2015, the clerk that handles concealed handgun licenses for Sheriff Martin informed me that since my current license had expired on April 19,2015 she had to hang on to it as it was no longer valid. I referenced the 30-day grace period and she informed me that as of March 23, 2015 the grace period had been eliminated.

I left the office without my license as I thought I might have missed this change in the law, but after reviewing ORC 2923.125(A), I discovered it was the clerk who had incorrect information.

I returned to her office on Monday May 6, 2015 to discuss the matter further. She stated that as far as she knew the grace period was eliminated and that she received that information from you. She told me that you had said that it was illegal to carry on an expired license after March 23, 2015. The clerk did reluctantly return my license and said she would research the grace period herself.

I have since discussed the matter with Sheriff Martin and he has assured me that he will take steps to fix the training error in his office. However my question is, if the clerk did receive this incorrect information from you, are there other departments that also received the same bad information? This in turn raises the following concern, that others in my situation may have their licenses improperly seized, or worse yet, have improper criminal charges filed against them if they are found to be carrying during the 30 day grace period.

I would ask that you reveiw 2923.125(A) and issue corrected direction to any County Sheriff’s offices that may have received incorrect information from you regarding the grace period. I would also ask that you please respond to me with your conclusions and actions either by email, phone or I would be happy to meet you in person if you would like.

Thank You

Cashman966
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Tue May 05, 2015 3:10 am

The word "review" is misspelled in the last paragraph.

Other than that, I say send it.

My overwhelming desire is to also contact the Attorney General's office to inform them of the situation, (not complain, just inform) but I will sit on my hands instead. :wink:
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Tue May 05, 2015 11:16 am

cashman-

If you haven't already sent your email to Sheriff Sabin, you might want to add a sentence about this issue: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84287
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby cashman966 » Tue May 05, 2015 4:11 pm

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:cashman-

If you haven't already sent your email to Sheriff Sabin, you might want to add a sentence about this issue: http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84287



Too late, already sent. But reading through that thread, it sounds like it is the AG that may need to clarify it's own website and any direction it offered.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby cashman966 » Wed May 06, 2015 10:57 pm

Sheriff Sabin's reply



Cashman966

I’m unsure where this information came from. The license is valid for 30 days after the expiration date. As well an expired license, no matter how old, remains proof of certification for the renewal purpose. None of these issues changed with the March update.

I will contact Sheriff Martin and make sure they are aware.

Sheriff Jim Sabin


And my response back

Sheriff Sabin,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

Perhaps the clerk was confused when she said the information came from you, or it was a misunderstanding on her part. At any rate, thanks again for the quick reply and clarification.

Cashman966


So not sure what happened, but at least in Madison and Delaware Counties the grace period appears to be recognized.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby cashman966 » Sat May 09, 2015 7:12 pm

My license arrived today on the mail. with 10 days to spare on the grace period. :lol:
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
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