Delaware Renewal issue

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Delaware Renewal issue

Postby cashman966 » Fri May 01, 2015 9:29 am

I had an appointment to drop off my renewal application today. Everything went fine went fine, she took me early 8:50 instead of 9:00, picture, prints small talk, but then at the end she stated that since my license had expired on 4/19 (I waited too long to schedule an appointment) she would have to keep it. I told her that there was a 30 day grace... which she quickly cut me off and said, no that was removed as of 3/23. I told her I believed she was wrong but she was aliment that it was no longer applicable and refused to return my license.

I did not have time to argue so I left and told her I would get back with her.

I sent the following Email.

Hello,

I was in for a renewal today and my license was taken as I was told that the 30 day grace on expired licenses had been removed on March 23rd. Please refer to ORC 2923.126(A)

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126

2923.126 Duties of licensed individual.

(A) A concealed handgun license that is issued under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code shall expire five years after the date of issuance. A licensee who has been issued a license under that section shall be granted a grace period of thirty days after the licensee's license expires during which the licensee's license remains valid. Except as provided in divisions (B) and (C) of this section, a licensee who has been issued a concealed handgun license under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code may carry a concealed handgun anywhere in this state if the licensee also carries a valid license and valid identification when the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed handgun. The licensee shall give notice of any change in the licensee's residence address to the sheriff who issued the license within forty-five days after that change.


As I said in the office, the 30 day grace was not affected by HB 234. I was hoping to pick my license back up today. Is that possible?

Thank You

Cashman966


I have a feeling I will be waiting 45 days for my renewal.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby WY_Not » Fri May 01, 2015 10:00 am

Only issue I see is asking if you can come pick up your license. Should have been worded that you WILL be by later and you WILL pick up your license.

cashman966 wrote:I had an appointment to drop off my renewal application today. Everything went fine went fine, she took me early 8:50 instead of 9:00, picture, prints small talk, but then at the end she stated that since my license had expired on 4/19 (I waited too long to schedule an appointment) she would have to keep it. I told her that there was a 30 day grace... which she quickly cut me off and said, no that was removed as of 3/23. I told her I believed she was wrong but she was aliment that it was no longer applicable and refused to return my license.

I did not have time to argue so I left and told her I would get back with her.

I sent the following Email.

Hello,

I was in for a renewal today and my license was taken as I was told that the 30 day grace on expired licenses had been removed on March 23rd. Please refer to ORC 2923.126(A)

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126

2923.126 Duties of licensed individual.

(A) A concealed handgun license that is issued under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code shall expire five years after the date of issuance. A licensee who has been issued a license under that section shall be granted a grace period of thirty days after the licensee's license expires during which the licensee's license remains valid. Except as provided in divisions (B) and (C) of this section, a licensee who has been issued a concealed handgun license under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code may carry a concealed handgun anywhere in this state if the licensee also carries a valid license and valid identification when the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed handgun. The licensee shall give notice of any change in the licensee's residence address to the sheriff who issued the license within forty-five days after that change.


As I said in the office, the 30 day grace was not affected by HB 234. I was hoping to pick my license back up today. Is that possible?

Thank You

Cashman966


I have a feeling I will be waiting 45 days for my renewal.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Fri May 01, 2015 9:39 pm

cashman-

Have you called the county prosecutor's office? They are the sheriff's attorney.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby Jim-in-Toledo » Fri May 01, 2015 10:05 pm

cashman966 wrote:...snip...
I was in for a renewal today and my license was taken
...snip...

Okay, I have been seeing on here, and other places, that present CHL's, expired or not, are being taken when people are renewing them. :shock:

Where in the ORC does it say that a valid current CHL, OR an expired CHL, must be surrendered prior to a new one being issued? :?

I still have mine from 2004 and 2008, as well as my current one issued in 2013.

I personally have seen where a number of Sheriffs Depts will mail the renewals, never mentioning the expiring ones at all.
Which I have had happen with both of my renewals in fact, with 2 different Sheriffs Depts involved also.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby cashman966 » Fri May 01, 2015 10:08 pm

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:cashman-

Have you called the county prosecutor's office? They are the sheriff's attorney.


Work today was such that I could not follow up on my email, the CHL office did not reply.

Monday morning I will go back to the Sherriff's CHL office, if I leave with my license I will still call and e mail the Sheriff to make sure he is aware of what happened and the resolution.

If I leave with no license I will make an appointment with the Sherriff and call the prosecutors office. Time to put fresh batteries in the recorder.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby cashman966 » Fri May 01, 2015 10:11 pm

Jim-in-Toledo wrote:
cashman966 wrote:...snip...
I was in for a renewal today and my license was taken
...snip...

Okay, I have been seeing on here, and other places, that present CHL's, expired or not, are being taken when people are renewing them. :shock:

Where in the ORC does it say that a valid current CHL, OR an expired CHL, must be surrendered prior to a new one being issued? :?

I still have mine from 2004 and 2008, as well as my current one issued in 2013.

I personally have seen where a number of Sheriffs Depts will mail the renewals, never mentioning the expiring ones at all.
Which I have had happen with both of my renewals in fact, with 2 different Sheriffs Depts involved also.



It doesn't. I have my original from 06 and fully expected to still have my 2010 license when I left today.

I will ask her on Monday why she thought she had to take it, other than she thought it was expired.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby Cruiser » Sat May 02, 2015 6:32 am

What you guys are forgetting is that Some Sheriffs implement the Law based on their opinion of how it should be! :roll:
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Sat May 02, 2015 1:14 pm

Cruiser wrote:What you guys are forgetting is that Some Sheriffs implement the Law based on their opinion of how it should be! :roll:


We talked about the possibility of dropping the 30-day grace period on this forum. The thought was our license was actually valid for 5 years AND 30 days, but the ATF will only allow licenses good for up to 5 years to be used for bypassing a NICS check.

I would assume this issue was discussed amongst law enforcement and the Sheriff made an assumption. :oops:
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby djthomas » Sun May 03, 2015 7:41 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:We talked about the possibility of dropping the 30-day grace period on this forum. The thought was our license was actually valid for 5 years AND 30 days, but the ATF will only allow licenses good for up to 5 years to be used for bypassing a NICS check.

And we also learned that our fears are not completely accurate. The ATF will only allow a license issued in the past five years to be used to bypass the check. The fact that it remains valid for the purpose of carrying concealed beyond five years is of no importance.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby Flexmoney » Sun May 03, 2015 11:48 am

I'm wondering how this worked out?

I went to renew last week in Morgan County. They wanted to held onto my recently expired (<30d) license. I mentioned I wanted to keep it, as there was a 30 grace period. They thought that the new laws wiped that out. (apparently not?). I was on my way out of state...so I left it.

I spend most all of my time in Delaware and Franklin Counties, so interested in the story here.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby cashman966 » Mon May 04, 2015 10:12 am

Update,

I went to the sheriff's office this morning to speak with the clerk. She already was with her first appointment and was rather hurried. I explained that I was there to pick up my expired license as per my email. She did not seem to know anything about the email, but said she would be right with me, as she already was with the other person.

About a minute later she came back out and handed me my license and said she "didn't have time to look at it right now" and handed me my license back. I asked her if she was going to look into it and she said yes. She went on to to say that she was told by Sheriff Sabin of Madison County, the "head of CCW", that it expired on the 23rd and I will be carrying illegally so be careful.

So here is my draft of what I intend to send to Sheriff Sabin with a cc to the clerk as well as Sheriff Martin of Delaware County.

Sheriff Sabin,

I am writing you as your name came up in the course my recent concealed handgun license renewal in Delaware County.

Here is the situation. After submitting my renewal application on May 1, 2015, the clerk that handles concealed handgun licenses for Sheriff Martin informed me that since my current license had expired on April 19,2015 she had to hang on to it as it was no longer valid. I referenced the 30-day grace period and she informed me that as of March 23, 2015 the grace period had been eliminated.

I left the office as I thought I might have missed this change in the law, but after reviewing ORC 2923.125(A), I discovered it was the clerk who had incorrect information.

I returned to her office today, May 6, 2015 to discuss the matter further. She stated that as far as she knew the grace period was eliminated and that she received that information from you. She said that you were the “head of CCW” and had said that it was illegal to carry on an expired license after March 23, 2015. The clerk did reluctantly return my license and said she would research the grace period herself.

My concern is that, if the clerk is correct, you are disseminating incorrect information. Information that not only has had a detrimental effect on me, but information that could result in improper criminal charges against concealed handgun licensees.

I would ask that you look at 2923.125(A) again and if you do indeed have some capacity as head of CCW, that you issue corrected direction to any County Sheriff’s offices that may have received this incorrect information from you. I would also ask that you please respond to me with you conclusions and actions either by email, phone or I would be happy to meet you in person if you would like.
Thank You

Cashman966
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby Tweed Ring » Mon May 04, 2015 10:31 am

Head of CCW. Good to know...
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby cashman966 » Mon May 04, 2015 11:25 am

Tweed Ring wrote:Head of CCW. Good to know...


That's what I thought too, if I were to guess, I would say he probably is the concealed carry point man in BSSA, or he handled the briefings on the law changes.

And though I didn't mention it, I am looking for any suggestions for additions, subtractions or better wording before I send my email off.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby cashman966 » Mon May 04, 2015 2:24 pm

So I just got off the phone with Sheriff Martin, He called to apologized for the inconvenience and wanted to make sure I had received my license back. He said that he was looking into where the breakdown in training happened that caused the issue, and he would make sure that it is not an issue going forward.

Apparently the county prosecutor contacted him after receiving an email from Dave. Which kind of blindsided me as no one made any mention of intervening on my behalf.

Sheriff Martin was very cordial and apologetic about the entire issue, but I did get the distinct impression that he would have rather been contacted directly to get the situation resolved instead of hearing about it from the prosecutor. Which, as a long time manager myself, I certainly can understand and was prepared to do if I had not received my license back this morning.

So at this point I guess I will hold off on any further correspondence as I don't want to duplicate any efforts.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
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Re: Delaware Renewal issue

Postby Tweed Ring » Mon May 04, 2015 2:28 pm

Delaware County Sheriff and Delaware County Prosecutor are both good people. Glad this was resolved without bringing in the Big Gun, i.e. the Head of CCW.
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