non judicial punishment disqualified?

[nateoiler2710]

10 years ago i had a article 15 for a failed urinalisis. Im worried the sherrif wont know that a artilcle 15 is non judicial punishment and is not considered a felony or a misdemeanor. Am i ok or wll i be unlawfully denied? Ive been in ohio for over 5 years so im assuming they wont do a fbi check and it wont show up. Someone please chime in

[carmen fovozzo]

IANAL but my guess your 15 won't mean squat...that's like getting a detention in high school..

[EChryst]

Was it field grade or company grade? Were you under E-5 when you received it? IANAJO (I am not a jag officers, jokers) but if I remember correctly if it was Company Grade or Summarized, it disappears after you tranisition from the unit.

They may be hung up more on your disorderly conduct than they are anything else. Did you receive an honorable discharge? Or less than honorable? Did the NJP show up on your 201 file?

[carmen fovozzo]

Not proud of this but I was court marshaled twice in the service and served time for both... Honorable Discharged.....

[nateoiler2710]

It was captains mast ie us navy. I failed the drug test and the searched they barracks on base and found residue and got njp. I was oth discharged. Im extremely concerned because i was arrested on base. I dont remember being booked but they had my chief petty officer from my squadron pick me up and drop me off at the barracks. They were going to courtmarshal me if i delayed the process at all because we were being deployed in two weeks time and my commanding officer didnt want to deal with it. I tried to stall to figure my rights out and he immediatly reminded me and i took art15 and a administrative discharge. Was oth dicharged a week later

[sodbuster95]

An Article 15 (Non-Judicial Punishment) is, by nature, not a federal conviction. As such, it will not show up in a background check regardless of the type (summarized, company-grade, or field-grade). The difference between the three types of Article 15's is the severity of punishment that the commander may impose.

As noted to by eChryst, whether and how a record of an Art. 15 is retained by the military is a question of rank. If you were an E-4 or below, the record is filed "locally" and it is destroyed when you PCS/ETS or after 2-years (whichever comes first.) If you were an E-5 or higher, the commander would have determined at the time of the proceedings whether the record would be filed in the restricted or performance fiche of your OMPF (Official Military Personnel File). This will (and does) effect your military career, but does not count as a "conviction." Once upon a time, the theory was that an E-4 or below should be given a "second chance" by ensuring that an Art. 15 does not haunt them their entire career. In reality, this hardly matters anymore, but the procedure still exists.

Once you're out of the military, an Art. 15 is no more consequential than a reprimand at any other type of job (with some caveats.) For example, if you were to apply for a job as a police officer or in a government position requiring a security clearance, you would have to disclose the Art. 15 as well as the details. Some professional licenses will also require disclosure (applying to the state bar to become an attorney, for example).

Regardless, for the purpose of a CHL, an Art. 15 is not a concern.

As an aside, you might consider applying to the ABCMR (Army Board for the Correction of Military Records) for a discharge upgrade. An upgrade is by no means automatic, but it's worth attempting to get the characterization upgraded from OTH to General or even Honorable. This is particularly true if the administrative separation unfairly characterized your entire period of service and focused exclusively on one instance of misconduct. If you went from Art. 15 to OTH discharge in less than 2 weeks, you may well have a sufficient basis for an upgrade.

[sodbuster95]

Not proud of this but I was court marshaled twice in the service and served time for both... Honorable Discharged.....

Not calling you old, but the military was a little different back then.

Ok, maybe I'm calling you a little old.

[JediSkipdogg]

Not proud of this but I was court marshaled twice in the service and served time for both... Honorable Discharged.....

Not calling you old, but the military was a little different back then.

Ok, maybe I'm calling you a little old.

They probably told him to stop driving the tanks in the left lane.

[nateoiler2710]

Ok. I completly understand everything stated above. Ive know this for ten years. But mps arrested me and i know that if im arrested it shows up under a fbi check under ncic(the big eye in the sky) and there seems to be a misuderstanding in how ncic puts this information in. It says something like arrest art112a sentence half months pay times two 14days restriction. This could lead the sherrif to belive this is a actual miseamenor or felony. Please correct me if im wrong

[A_F]

Not proud of this but I was court marshaled twice in the service and served time for both... Honorable Discharged.....

Not calling you old, but the military was a little different back then.

Ok, maybe I'm calling you a little old.

They probably told him to stop driving the tanks in the left lane.

Sounds like they told him twice!

[sodbuster95]

Ok. I completly understand everything stated above. Ive know this for ten years. But mps arrested me and i know that if im arrested it shows up under a fbi check under ncic(the big eye in the sky) and there seems to be a misuderstanding in how ncic puts this information in. It says something like arrest art112a sentence half months pay times two 14days restriction. This could lead the sherrif to belive this is a actual miseamenor or felony. Please correct me if im wrong

Given the diversity of military installations and attendant military police SOP's, it is not necessarily a given that the arrest will show up in NCIC. However, even if an arrest does show, what I stated earlier about NJP remains - it's not a conviction and, therefore, not a basis for disqualification. Ergo, no cause for alarm.

In the unlikely event that something got entered incorrectly and NCIC shows a criminal conviction (as opposed to simply an arrest), then you might have an issue. In that case, you may find yourself in the unenviable position of attempting to getting that record corrected. That, however, is not something I can offer insight into; particularly given that the inputting agency is the DoD.

[nateoiler2710]

So its impossible to get ncic corrected? I hear once its there its not coming out. I also belive the state of florida refuses to enter anything to ncic. If it holds true wouldnt that mean nothing shows on ncic or is dod the sole authority?

[carmen fovozzo]

You guys are much better at lawyering and police work then being funny..

[sodbuster95]

So its impossible to get ncic corrected? I hear once its there its not coming out. I also belive the state of florida refuses to enter anything to ncic. If it holds true wouldnt that mean nothing shows on ncic or is dod the sole authority?

Impossible is probably too extreme but, from what I've heard, it's very difficult. The FBI sponsors NCIC, not the DoD. It is my understanding that they're reluctant to remove information once it's entered. There are others here that can offer more insight on that system, so they'll perhaps chime in.

[JediSkipdogg]

So its impossible to get ncic corrected? I hear once its there its not coming out. I also belive the state of florida refuses to enter anything to ncic. If it holds true wouldnt that mean nothing shows on ncic or is dod the sole authority?

Impossible is probably too extreme but, from what I've heard, it's very difficult. The FBI sponsors NCIC, not the DoD. It is my understanding that they're reluctant to remove information once it's entered. There are others here that can offer more insight on that system, so they'll perhaps chime in.

I've mostly stayed out of this thread because I don't understand DoD rules and regulations.

The FBI will remove whatever the original submitting agency tells them to remove though. I've never had any problem getting info submitted incorrectly removed. Now, I've had problems getting other agencies to fix their records, but I have no experience with the DoD so no clue how easy they are to work with.

Certain offenses must be on the record if it was a legitimate offense that requires submission. Therefore, removal would fall under the same thing as criminal records and sealing/expunging.

Your best bet on something like this is to call the closest JAG office and ask their opinion. Your second option is to go to where you plan on applying and pay for your own BCI/FBI background check. What you see I believe is the same thing they will see. Then you can apply and will know yourself what's on there. However, as you originally pointed out, if you lived in Ohio for the last 5 years then you will pay for the BCI check only and the sheriff won't even do an FBI check.