confused about ccw guidelines....

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Grovit
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:20 pm

confused about ccw guidelines....

Post by Grovit »

hello all.
i am about to start the process of applying for ccw.
there is a possibility i would not qualify but i am confused on the language.

i know a conviction of domestic violence disqualifies you. here is where it gets muddy for me.

i was arrested for domestic violence 20 years ago. i know she tried to drop the charges but the state picked them up. i dont think they picked it up as DM though.
i went to court and plead no contest. took an anger management class and that was it.

so my problem is i dont know if there is a conviction and if there is what the charge is..
i have been searching all the online court records i can find and nothing comes up during any of the searches...

in the past month i have purchased 2 firearms from legit gun dealers. not a gun show or out of a trunk. i filled out the form and they called it in and within 2 minutes they got the ok to proceed and that was it.

this leads me to think i will be fine...

some of the pages i have been reading are confusing. something like you will be disqualified for a misd charge of violence UNLESS you plead no contest AND you were entitled to a jury trial AND you knowingly waived that right.

i honestly dont remember all the particulars. i had just turned 18. i went to court of 5 minutes and i had to take a class.

i would think if i had a conviction of violence it would show up in my searches and i would not have been able to proceed with the purchase...

i am going to the court house where i went to court tomorrow to see if i can get a hard copy of the record...

so my questions?
is there some way this record has been sealed or expunged and that is why it is not showing up in a search? is that why i was able to proceed.
i mean arrested for does not mean convicted of.

i dont want to falsify anything on the application even unknowingly. i will be getting the record tomorrow(if it exists) to make sure.

i am just kind of anxious about it and would like some opinions....

thank you all
mreising
Posts: 6274
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:07 pm
Location: Warren County

Re: confused about ccw guidelines....

Post by mreising »

Grovit wrote:hello all.

some of the pages i have been reading are confusing. something like you will be disqualified for a misd charge of violence UNLESS you plead no contest AND you were entitled to a jury trial AND you knowingly waived that right.

i honestly dont remember all the particulars. i had just turned 18. i went to court of 5 minutes and i had to take a class.
I think some of what you are reading are the issues related to the Lautenberg Amendment (18USC 922) regarding disability related to DV convictions. This is not necessarily part of the OH concealed carry laws, but it could put you under Federal Disability for possessing firearms absent the exceptions you mention (I think you also may have misstated the exception). In addition, you may have received some sort of dismissal of the charge by completing the anger management class in lieu of a conviction (I am not a lawyer and don't know if that option is even available for DV related issues). I think getting your complete record would be a good first step. Others that are more knowledgeable of the law will probably chime in.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny

Mark
NRA Training Counselor-Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Reloading, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home, Home Firearms Safety, Chief RSO. NRA Endowment Life member.
Grovit
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:20 pm

Re: confused about ccw guidelines....

Post by Grovit »

thanks for the reply.
tomorrow i am going to the court house where i had to appear 20 years ago to get whatever records are possible from them.
i called the sheriff today to ask about it.

they said for $27 i can go up there and get a background check performed and the results will be mailed to me directly. im going to do that as well.

it is confusing to me i think in part because i dont even remember what the charge wound up being.
as i said i have searched my county and the city records online and nothing comes up.

i dont understand how it does not show up and just not be there.
i definitely was arrested for domestic. i remember in court she tried to drop them but the state picked charges up.
i honestly dont think it ended up being a domestic violence charge but i dont remember what the charge was.
you know at the time i wanted it over as fast as possible and i have not thought about this in years.
other than a traffic violation i have been squeaky clean since then.
i know i plead no contest but i dont remember the charge. i also dont remember if it in fact was dismissed after completion of the class.
i suppose that is possible.

i got confused at what i read because it said even a misd of violence would disqualify you but there were exceptions.
something like if you did not plead guilty and/or did not have a lawyer and/or if i knowingly waived my right to a jury trial.

something to that effect. im not exactly sure....
either way, i just thought maybe some here would have an idea. im going to to court house tomorrow and then i will be going to the sheriff to get a bci background check performed.

i was under the impression with a domestic violence conviction you could not legally purchase a firearm and i purchased 2 recently with zero delay.

i also read something on the attorney general site that a certain type of misd violence charge would not disqualify you as long as it has been 3 years.
there was another exception all together and that was 10 years.
getting the check done either way.
i dont want to falsify anything even unknowingly....

thanks again
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BobK
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Re: confused about ccw guidelines....

Post by BobK »

You are correct to be concerned about verifying the status of this old misdemeanor. Many people are unknowingly committing a federal felony because they had no idea an old conviction disqualified them from possessing firearms.

A few thoughts:
  • You are correct that the first and best place to start is with the clerk of courts where this happened. They can tell you what the official record is.
  • Just because you were not flagged in a NICS check is no guarantee of anything. The system is notorious for errors . . . both kinds of errors: people flagged as prohibited that are in fact not prohibited, as well as people passed without trouble who are in fact prohibited. Unfortunately, passing the NICS check is not a defense for a prohibited person anyway. They are expected to know their status.
  • You will need to see if it is a listed as a conviction. Non-convictions do not count. A no contest plea counts as a conviction unless it is entered as part of a plea bargain where there is an agreement to drop the charges upon completion of the negotiated requirements.
  • You mention "she". What was her relationship to you? A wife, a cohabiting (live-in) girlfriend, or a woman with whom you had a child count as a qualifying relationship. An ordinary girlfriend does not count for the federal domestic violence definition.
  • Did you have an attorney or knowingly waive your right to an attorney?
  • Did you have a jury trial or knowingly waive your right to a jury trial?
  • If you did receive a conviction, did the criminal statute contain language that describes the use or attempted use of physical force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon? (That is why it is important to know the exact statute for the conviction, right down to the paragraph level. Clerk of Courts will know.)
The above details are all critical to whether or not a federal firearms disability due to a Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence applies. We are taking the time to answer your question, so please give us the courtesy of answering the above questions individually. Good luck with the Clerk of Courts.
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).

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Grovit
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Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:20 pm

Re: confused about ccw guidelines....

Post by Grovit »

BobK wrote:You are correct to be concerned about verifying the status of this old misdemeanor. Many people are unknowingly committing a federal felony because they had no idea an old conviction disqualified them from possessing firearms.

A few thoughts:
  • You are correct that the first and best place to start is with the clerk of courts where this happened. They can tell you what the official record is.
  • Just because you were not flagged in a NICS check is no guarantee of anything. The system is notorious for errors . . . both kinds of errors: people flagged as prohibited that are in fact not prohibited, as well as people passed without trouble who are in fact prohibited. Unfortunately, passing the NICS check is not a defense for a prohibited person anyway. They are expected to know their status.
  • You will need to see if it is a listed as a conviction. Non-convictions do not count. A no contest plea counts as a conviction unless it is entered as part of a plea bargain where there is an agreement to drop the charges upon completion of the negotiated requirements.
  • You mention "she". What was her relationship to you? A wife, a cohabiting (live-in) girlfriend, or a woman with whom you had a child count as a qualifying relationship. An ordinary girlfriend does not count for the federal domestic violence definition.
  • Did you have an attorney or knowingly waive your right to an attorney?
  • Did you have a jury trial or knowingly waive your right to a jury trial?
  • If you did receive a conviction, did the criminal statute contain language that describes the use or attempted use of physical force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon? (That is why it is important to know the exact statute for the conviction, right down to the paragraph level. Clerk of Courts will know.)
The above details are all critical to whether or not a federal firearms disability due to a Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence applies. We are taking the time to answer your question, so please give us the courtesy of answering the above questions individually. Good luck with the Clerk of Courts.

the she was my then girlfriend. we had a chile together.
i did not have an attorney. i wanted to go at it alone to get it over with as fast as possible
i did not have a jury trial. i dont remember saying the words i waive my right to a jury trial. i went to court. i entered a plea of no contest. i went to 1 anger management class. i literally have not thought about this in years. at the time all i knew was i wanted it to be over. i do not even remember what the charge wound up being.
i will hopefully find out about the statute for the conviction tomorrow. i have absolutely no idea.

i would assume i was convicted of something. i mean they did bring charges against me. i just dont know what the conviction was for..
i have not thought about this in almost 20 years.
i remember panicking after it happened not knowing what the result was going to be and it wound up being basically nothing.
i probably had to pay court costs...i would think but i dont remember. i went to 1 class and that was it...the class was during a single evening and lasted a couple hours.

thanks for replying. hopefully i will have more info to share tomorrow.
i will be hitting the court house early. depending on what i find out there, i might be going to the sheriff station as well for the bci check.
if all goes well and nothing comes up at the court house then i will skip the sheriff.

do you know any reason why this would not come up on a clerk of court search?
i search every possible variation of my name and nothing at all about this.

i have searched other people that i know have had convictions for various things just to see if they pop up and they do.

it just seems odd to me.
Grovit
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:20 pm

Re: confused about ccw guidelines....

Post by Grovit »

and one more thing bobk

this is from your link..this was what i was talking about

However, a person is not considered to have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence unless:

the person was represented by counsel in the case, or knowingly and intelligently waived the right of counsel in the case; and
in the case of a prosecution for which a person was entitled to a jury trial in the jurisdiction in which the case was tried, either —
the case was tried by a jury, or
the person knowingly and intelligently waived the right to have the case tried by a jury, by guilty plea or otherwise.

^^^^^^^^im confused as to exactly what that means....
i was not represented. i did waive my right(i assume) because by rights i could have counsel but didnt.
the case was not tried by jury, so i would again assume that i did wave my right to a jury as i did not have one.
like i said, i was in court for all of 5 minutes.

i am 100% certain though that the charge i went in front of the judge for was not domestic violence.
it very wall may have been some other sort of violence charge but i dont know what or to what degree
i know she(my then girlfriend) tried to drop the charges but the prosecution would not drop it all together and did charge me with something to which i plead no contest to and it was done.

i will have more info tomorrow and i will post it in this thread.

i want everything to be legal and legit.
slowquest
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Re: confused about ccw guidelines....

Post by slowquest »

Do the facts of the case matter?

IE: Let's say that a person was charged with DV and had actually hit a live-in, mother of his child girlfriend. That guy then with an attorney and knowingly waving his right to a jury trial pleads to 2917.11A2 Disorderly Conduct. I was under the impression that WOULD be disqualifying because of the underlying element of domestic violence. Never really made sense to me, but that's what I thought.
“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
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BobK
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Re: confused about ccw guidelines....

Post by BobK »

slowquest wrote:Do the facts of the case matter?

IE: Let's say that a person was charged with DV and had actually hit a live-in, mother of his child girlfriend. That guy then with an attorney and knowingly waving his right to a jury trial pleads to 2917.11A2 Disorderly Conduct. I was under the impression that WOULD be disqualifying because of the underlying element of domestic violence. Never really made sense to me, but that's what I thought.
The facts of the conviction matter as much or more.

For your example, pleading to RC 2917.11(A)(1) Disorderly Conduct would be disqualifying (fighting, violent behavior = element of force).
However, pleading to RC 2917.11(A)(2) Disorderly Conduct would NOT be disqualifying (unreasonable noise, gestures, etc. do not have element of force).
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).

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BobK
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Re: confused about ccw guidelines....

Post by BobK »

grovit, what was the nature of your relationship with the girl in question?
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).

This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
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Tru-Heathen
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Re: confused about ccw guidelines....

Post by Tru-Heathen »

BobK wrote:grovit, what was the nature of your relationship with the girl in question?

From above.
Grovit wrote:

the she was my then girlfriend. we had a chile together...
A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
But have his weapons to hand:
He knows not when he may need a spear,
Or what menace meet on the road.

- Verse 38 from the Havamal, the Wisdom of Odin.
Grovit
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Re: confused about ccw guidelines....

Post by Grovit »

so i went to the mayors court that the police station told me to go to.
they had no record of anything.
the clerk there sent me to the next city over where i went to court.
i thought it was strange i went to court the city over from where i got arrested but the clerk at the mayors court said certain charges go there.

so, i went up there and they too had no record of it.
ran my social and my name and nothing was there.

so, i guess the next step is to go to the sheriff station and get that bci check done and go from there
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