Lorain County Fair

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Forum rules
This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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BriKuz
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Location: Ashland County, OH

Lorain County Fair

Post by BriKuz »

getting the runaround from the office at Lorain County... the staff will give no info, and the website is down. Has anyone been there to see if they are posted this year?
BriKuz
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Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by BriKuz »

The Sheriff's department says they are County property and they are posted and we will be arrested if we try to carry.
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pirateguy191
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Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by pirateguy191 »

I just posted a question on their Facebook page.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh

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mreising
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Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by mreising »

BriKuz wrote:The Sheriff's department says they are County property and they are posted and we will be arrested if we try to carry.
What will you be charged with? Do you have the financial resources to defend yourself if arrested? I believe you would win but you have to balance the risk vs reward and whether you can afford the time and financial costs while they try to grind you down.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny

Mark
NRA Training Counselor-Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Reloading, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home, Home Firearms Safety, Chief RSO. NRA Endowment Life member.
BriKuz
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Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by BriKuz »

I sent the following:
1) The constitution and laws of the State of Ohio establish the rights and privileges of the Lorain
County Agricultural Society, Lorain County, Ohio (the Society) as a body corporate and politic.
The Society is a county agricultural society corporation formed under Chapter 1711 of the Ohio
Revised Code

2) Agricultural Societies are created under Ohio Revised Code 1711. This statute allows for a COUNTY or an INDEPENDENT Ag Society to be established.

3) When choosing to form as an INDEPENDENT organization, this does NOT make that organization a private entity. An Ag Society that manages a fairground or creates a fair board to do so, is a political subdivision of the state of Ohio. In other words, ALL Ag societies created under ORC 1711 are public entities. See Greene Cty. Agricultural Soc. v. Liming (2000), 89 Ohio St.3d 551. (http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/docs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... io-486.pdf)

4) As all public entities are subject to the General Laws of the state of Ohio, Ag Societies must comply with ORC 9.68 regarding rules and regulations concerning firearms.

5) Under Ohio law, an Ag Society or fair board may post a "No Guns" sign on any building that is not primarily a rest area, shelter, restroom or parking facility. An Ag Society may NOT post any open area.

6) ALL Ag Societies formed under ORC 1711 are bodies corporate and politic, and may sue and be sued. ORC 9.68 allows for a court to award costs and attorney fees should your organization be sued.

7) Lawsuits under ORC 9.68 are easily winnable, but not profitable.

8) Because the Ag Society is earning money (such as admission fees) while violating a state law, a plaintiff may have a valid reason to ask for punitive damages to be awarded. A reasonable amount to ask for might be an amount equal to the gate admission fees for the last seven years (since ORC 9.68 has been in effect).

I would ask the fair board and the Ag Society to IMMEDIATELY remove any and all signage that restricts the legal open carry or licensed concealed carry of firearms within the fairgrounds.

Please contact me when you have removed the signs, or with a reason for why you have not.

Thanks!

BriKuz

Please be aware, Ohio State law regards these signs as illegal, and my wife and I may or may not choose to attend the Fair legally carrying our firearms.
My wife and I are resolute, and will not be deterred.
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pirateguy191
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Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by pirateguy191 »

Their reply on Facebook:
Lorain County Fair First off - we are not a county owned property. Second - no guns allowed are posted only in areas allowed by the law.
Like · Reply · 2 minutes ago
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh

NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
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pirateguy191
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Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by pirateguy191 »

Website is back up.

http://loraincountyfair.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh

NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
BriKuz
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Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:59 pm
Location: Ashland County, OH

Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by BriKuz »

are the front gates posted, or not?
BriKuz
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Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by BriKuz »

recieved the following:

I don’t know where the signage is you are referring to? Can you send me a picture or the area where you saw a sign that was not permitted?

Charisse Nikel

Office Manager/Fair Secretary
Lorain County Fair
23000 Fairgrounds Road
Wellington, OH 44090
Phone: (440) 647-2781
Fax: (440) 647-4544

I can't see your post on FB, pirateguy....
BriKuz
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Location: Ashland County, OH

Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by BriKuz »

We consulted with our attorneys in the fall and met all the ORC codes as they interpreted them. If someone has an issue with signs, I wish they would personally have knowledge of it and not go on hearsay. You guys are bombarding my seasonal help with unnecessary calls.

Charisse Nikel

Office Manager/Fair Secretary
Lorain County Fair
23000 Fairgrounds Road
Wellington, OH 44090

Note how they CONSTANTLY skirt around WHAT areas are posted?
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pirateguy191
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Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by pirateguy191 »

BriKuz wrote: Charisse Nikel

Office Manager/Fair Secretary
Lorain County Fair
23000 Fairgrounds Road
Wellington, OH 44090
Phone: 440-647-2781
Fax: 440-647-4544
E-mail: info@loraincountyfair.com
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh

NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
BriKuz
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Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:59 pm
Location: Ashland County, OH

Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by BriKuz »

look 3 posts above this one... ;-) phone numbers are there lol
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djthomas
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Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by djthomas »

OK to their point, what, specifically is posted that is in violation of 9.68?

There's a right way and a wrong way to approach these kinds of things ... I'm seeing a a few examples of the latter in this one. One person at the fair has taken point and asked for specific information. Has it been given to her? There's no need to post/call all their phone numbers and "bombard the seasonal help" or send long dissertations on constitutional law at this point. Just sayin'...
BriKuz
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Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by BriKuz »

djthomas wrote:OK to their point, what, specifically is posted that is in violation of 9.68?

There's a right way and a wrong way to approach these kinds of things ... I'm seeing a a few examples of the latter in this one.
According to the Sheriff's office, the ENTIRE fairgrounds is posted. The people in the office REFUSE to say what areas are posted, only that they have talked to their lawyer and they have posted the areas they feel they are allowed to post. We are getting little feedback from any rep of the fair board. If someone from the fair board simply stated that the buildings were posted, but the fairgrounds themselves were not, this trouble ticket would likely already be closed... as it stands, the fair board's representatives have been EXTREMELY evasive. I was unable to make it up to look tonight, but I assure you, should the issue not be resolved by the time I get off work tomorrow, I WILL have eyes on entrances and see if they are posted or not.
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Werz
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Re: Lorain County Fair

Post by Werz »

BriKuz wrote:
djthomas wrote:OK to their point, what, specifically is posted that is in violation of 9.68?

There's a right way and a wrong way to approach these kinds of things ... I'm seeing a a few examples of the latter in this one.
According to the Sheriff's office, the ENTIRE fairgrounds is posted. The people in the office REFUSE to say what areas are posted, only that they have talked to their lawyer and they have posted the areas they feel they are allowed to post. We are getting little feedback from any rep of the fair board. If someone from the fair board simply stated that the buildings were posted, but the fairgrounds themselves were not, this trouble ticket would likely already be closed... as it stands, the fair board's representatives have been EXTREMELY evasive. I was unable to make it up to look tonight, but I assure you, should the issue not be resolved by the time I get off work tomorrow, I WILL have eyes on entrances and see if they are posted or not.
And that is what djthomas is talking about. If you want to challenge these people, then you need to know that they are posting in violation of law.

If you call them up and say, "We have a hunch you might be doing something illegal, and we want you tell us exactly what you're doing," doesn't that make us just like the police officers who stop people who openly carry firearms?
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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