County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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charben
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County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by charben »

About this time of year, we get inundated with notices about fairgrounds being posted. If your county fairgrounds is an issue, here is how you can help:

We need to know WHO owns the fairgrounds. If it is the county and the grounds are still posted, this is a clear violation of 9.68. We have had success in getting such signs down.

If the Fair Board claims that they own the grounds (or lease it), that is now a legal gray area. As owners or lease holders, they have the ability to control activity on the property. This may include posting. There is at least one case that I know of where an organization such as a fair board was deemed a government agency and that would make them subject to 9.68. HOWEVER, that battle has largely been unsuccessful.

So, while I am interested in pursuing this...it simply is not a high priority because of the low likelihood of success versus other issues we are dealing with.

If your county is an issue, and you are interested in helping, please contact me and I will help you.

Please post county fair issues IN THIS THREAD from now on. This will help me keep track.

Thanks!
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by docachna »

Well, I guess I'll kick things off here.

According to prior posts, the Fairfield County Fairgrounds in Lancaster is posted. I have not personally seen these signs.

The Fairfield County Fairgrounds is listed in the county auditor's office, parcel # 0532812000 as being owned by the "Fairfield County Agriculture (sic) Society", 157 E. Fair Ave., Lancaster OH 43130. I believe this to be a typo at the auditor's office, as the State Auditor's office lists their audits as being audits of the Fairfield County Agricultural Society. Their most recent audit states:

1. SUMMARY OF SIGNIFICANT ACCOUNTING POLICIES
A. Description of the Entity
The constitution and laws of the State of Ohio establish the rights and privileges of the Fairfield County Agricultural Society, Fairfield County, Ohio, (the Society) as a body corporate and politic. The Society is a county agricultural society corporation formed under Chapter 1711 of the Ohio Revised Code....


From my quick readings of prior postings concerning the obligations of County Ag Societies, it would seem that any postings of GB signs at anywhere other than the buildings within the Fairgrounds, including the entrances, is inappropriate.

I live in the NW part of the county, but if anyone in Lancaster can check on the continued presence of signs at the Fairgrounds, perhaps the moderators may be able to raise this with the County Fair Board. I will also be happy to help with this in any way possible, including letter contact if desired.
Last edited by docachna on Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by Cruiser »

Most County Agricultural Society's consider themselves above the law. But by law they are a Political Subdivision.
If you take time to read their audits http://www.auditor.state.oh.us/AuditSearch/Search.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; you will find that a lot of public money is used to support them.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/1711" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by sodbuster95 »

When I was there last, Lucas County Fairgrounds (Ned Skeldon Stadium) were still posted (both the buildings and parking lot entrances).

I know the main buildings are still posted, but I'll have to check again on the parking lot.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by johnisaly »

I am planning on attending a couple of fairs (new to me) in a few weeks. Would some of you local guys chime in and let me know if these two fairgrounds are currently posted. Thanks for the help.
1 - Allen County in Lima
2 - Darke County in Greeneville
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by charliej47 »

Preble county fair buildings posted
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by talladam »

Any info regarding the following fairgrounds? Erie, Huron, Ottawa, Ashland or Richland?
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by charben »

charliej47 wrote:Preble county fair buildings posted
Our argument is that fair grounds are "government owned" property similar to parks. As such, the GROUNDS cannot be posted. But buildings CAN be. Even if a fair board or agricultural society claim to own the fair grounds, there is an argument that they are a defacto government entity and would still fall under 9.68. If the fair grounds ARE "privately" owned, they have the right to post. All we can do is the same as with any private business. But I have not found one that is really "privately" owned.

At any rate, buildings are not a focus of this battle.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by Javelin Man »

I was at Bowling Green fair Tuesday and saw no signs anywhere, but wasn't looking too closely. Last night I was at Wapakoneta for the Auglaize County Fair. Each building had a little sign (2"x4") stating carrying weapons were prohibited on the premises. My emphasis My guess is that they got a large batch of cheap signs and used them regardless of the exact wording.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by djthomas »

I was at Cuyahoga today and all the buildings are posted (as they should be), however this includes the permanent, stand-alone restrooms and some shelter like buildings. They've also got big signs on all the gates, and at entrance one, the drive as you come in - right next to a big sign with the three county commissioners' names posted. The signs specifically reference Concealed Carry including "handgun license owners", which I would argue is not me since the license is the property of the issuing Sheriff, but I digress.

I've sent them a quick email just doing some general inquiries to find out if they consider themselves to be a public or private employer and who owns their land. I'm not even going to bring up CCW - I'd rather get the answers I know I should receive and then proceed from there.

As an aside, it's probably worth nothing in any communications to fair boards that 9.68 (B) specifically provides for the recovery of fees for any successful challenge to any "ordinance, rule, or regulation" so if they try to weasel out by saying they didn't pass a law, just a rule, they are clearly still covered by 9.68. I realize that resources are tight, but maybe it'll just take one county being made an example of for the others to fall in line, particularly since if we prevail we recover our costs. I guess my question would be "OK, so if we sue you, who is going to represent you? Oh, the county prosecutor? But I thought you were a private entity..."
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by charben »

djthomas wrote:I was at Cuyahoga today and all the buildings are posted (as they should be), however this includes the permanent, stand-alone restrooms and some shelter like buildings. They've also got big signs on all the gates, and at entrance one, the drive as you come in - right next to a big sign with the three county commissioners' names posted. The signs specifically reference Concealed Carry including "handgun license owners", which I would argue is not me since the license is the property of the issuing Sheriff, but I digress.

I've sent them a quick email just doing some general inquiries to find out if they consider themselves to be a public or private employer and who owns their land. I'm not even going to bring up CCW - I'd rather get the answers I know I should receive and then proceed from there.

As an aside, it's probably worth nothing in any communications to fair boards that 9.68 (B) specifically provides for the recovery of fees for any successful challenge to any "ordinance, rule, or regulation" so if they try to weasel out by saying they didn't pass a law, just a rule, they are clearly still covered by 9.68. I realize that resources are tight, but maybe it'll just take one county being made an example of for the others to fall in line, particularly since if we prevail we recover our costs. I guess my question would be "OK, so if we sue you, who is going to represent you? Oh, the county prosecutor? But I thought you were a private entity..."

Thanks!
Chris

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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by sodbuster95 »

sodbuster95 wrote:When I was there last, Lucas County Fairgrounds (Ned Skeldon Stadium) were still posted (both the buildings and parking lot entrances).

I know the main buildings are still posted, but I'll have to check again on the parking lot.
I managed to check on this today. There are 5 entrances off of Key street. The 3 northern-most entrances have no apparent signage, but the 4th one does. (This is the one most people would use to get back to the 4-H clubhouse, boat storage, etc.) There is a sign quite similar to a "No Parking sign adjacent to the street with a picture of a revolver and crossed through circle and the words "Firearms are prohibited on these grounds". The 5th entrance (the one generally used for fairs to get to the parking area) doesn't appear to have a sign, but with the Rib-Off going on, I couldn't get close enough to be sure.

The main halls all have signs prohibiting firearms.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by djthomas »

charben wrote:
djthomas wrote:I was at Cuyahoga today...
Thanks!
I have not heard back from them yet. However, thanks to RickT over on, viewtopic.php?f=20&t=33826&start=60 it looks like Cuyahoga is owned by the county:
rickt wrote: Last year, while researching the Cuyahoga County Agricultural Society, I found a Sun News article that says it is owned by the county.
The corporation line that splits the Cuyahoga County Fairgrounds between Berea and Middleburg Heights may symbolize how the two cities envision the landmark site's future.

Berea has gone on record opposing development of the 120-acre fairgrounds, while some Middleburg Heights officials and a city-hired planning consultant have discussed the possibility of one day turning the western part of the property into an office park.

About 58 acres of fairgrounds land is in Middleburg Heights. The rest is located in Berea.

But neither city owns the fairgrounds. The land is owned by the county and operates under the watch of the Cuyahoga County Agricultural Society's board of directors.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by FireEMSPolice »

Well, here is mine about the Morrow County Fairgrounds.
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=23280" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I did send an email to the commissioners asking as to who owns the fairgrounds.
talladam wrote:Any info regarding the following fairgrounds? Erie, Huron, Ottawa, Ashland or Richland?
I can vouch for the Richland County Fairgrounds NOT being posted, at least not the entrances that I have seen. I am a native of the Mansfield/Lexington area and my fiancee lives nearby. I will be up there next week and will do a drive around to verify but I did not see any signs last time.

In regards to the Erie, Huron, and Ottawa county fairgrounds, I am not sure. I see you live in Erie County. I used to live in the cities of Sandusky and Huron a few years ago. Why not take a drive to these fairgrounds to see? Erie County's is small. However, its just off of the lot to the county admin building and Sheriffs Office there in Perkins Twp.


Can we make this thread a sticky?
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Can I carry at my local county fair?

Post by Dusty1 »

I went to the Athens County fair today in Athens Ohio, and before I went I looked on the website, searched the internet, and then called to see if I could carry to the fair. When I called I asked if there was any limitations to the concealed carry law, and the woman on the phone said she would check, then got on the phone after a few seconds to tell me definately not. I asked specifically if there were any signs prohibiting it and she said "yes". Sure enough, when I got there I saw no signs as such, which made me regret not taking down her name. On the way home my wife asked why I needed to carry to the fair, and I replied "because you never know". Apon retuning home it is pretty dark in our front yard, and a large stray dog was wondering through it. He didn't look quite right, and although I didn't end up needing a gun, it would have been nice to have on me, which my wife later agreed.
So my question is are county fairs out of the question, or did I consult a woman who was personally afraid of guns and took it apon herself to decide the law. I will be returning on Thursday so your feedback will be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Dusty1 on Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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