Stark County Fair

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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Stark County Fair

Postby bamafan7 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:33 pm

I attended today and they have no-gun signs posted at the entrance.
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby kentman » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:51 pm

Which entrance please?
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby JustaShooter » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:15 pm

bamafan7 wrote:I attended today and they have no-gun signs posted at the entrance.

Did you take pictures by any chance? In previous years, they posted signs that said underneath the gun with circle/slash that you couldn't carry into buildings.. They were black & white photocopies and the "no guns" symbol was maybe2 inches across.
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby JustaShooter » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:48 pm

OK, this is where we are:

The county sheriff posted the fairgrounds with this signage:
Image

The sign references ORC 2923.126 (C)(3)(a), which is the section of Ohio law dealing with *private property*. Since the fairgrounds are owned by Stark County, and since the Stark County Agricultural Society is a political subdivision of the state of Ohio, that section does not apply. Nor can the sheriff, or the ag society, post *anything* except buildings that qualify as "government facilities".

Unfortunately, the sheriffs office has said they are enforcing the posting, and believe they are within their rights to do so. Also unfortunately, the sheriff's office is closed, and tomorrow is the last day of the fair so I don't know how much progress we will be able to make. However, 3FULLMAGS+1 and I are doing what we can.
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby 3FULLMAGS+1 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:54 pm

I will be contacting the Stark co. sheriffs dept early in the morning and stating our case, and see how that goes first and we will go from there.
I may be posting more in the morning about this and what we , ( the Ragle's and I ), plan to do.

I don't expect the sheriff's dept to listen to reason, by the way.
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby 3FULLMAGS+1 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:04 pm

kentman wrote:Which entrance please?


Every entrance, as far as I know.
I carried there sat. and openly too and there wasn't a deputy that said anything, and I know some of them had to see my gun.

The pic that Ragle posted is one of the pics I sent him sat. night at one of the nw entrances
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby 3FULLMAGS+1 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:59 pm

Update:

I received a call from a Major Stance who told me the prosecuting attorney told the fairboard and the Stark co. sheriffs office that having and posting the "grounds" was legal.

Now I find that a little unbelievable, as the sheriffs dept should know better, regardless of what the prosecuting attorney says.

This issue has been settled long ago, and frankly something smells fishy.

Justashooter and I were going to visit the fair , but he went with family and decided I didn't need to go, (I didn't).

I'm sure he will update here later.
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby JustaShooter » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:36 pm

Unlike previous years, where the ticket booths at the remote entrances had photocopied signs with a small gun in a circle/slash with wording below it that said you can't carry in buildings, but *nothing* at the main entrance, this year they went whole-hog with the full size, color signs posted above, and have them at all entrances at the ticket booths as well as at the main entrance on temporary stands where you stop to pay before parking.

Based on what 3FULLMAGS+1 told me he had found out, I chose not to have him come down for the sole purpose of hoping for a sheriff at the entrance who could deny him entry and get it on video. Instead, I decided we would try to deal with it after the holiday so I proceeded with our planned family outing to the fair, but had my wife leave her (normally open-carried) sidearm at home, and I also chose not to openly carry this year.

Unfortunately, we just found out too late to effectively react to this and get it handled. Darrel and I have started talking about how to go about dealing with the Stark County Fair specifically, and inappropriately-posted county fairs in general. We need to be able to find out about these quickly enough to do something, and probably need help in dealing with them when they do happen. I'd also like to get more proactive to try to cut down on the inappropriate postings happening in the first place. We could use some ideas on how to achieve these goals, so if you have some thoughts, please either post here or PM me with them.
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby 3FULLMAGS+1 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:03 pm

As Justashooter posted above, he and I will be discussing this issue regarding the Stark fair first.

I've been re-reading the discussion on how Jeffry Smith handled Clarmont county, but he went through a lot of work just to deal with one county.

Smith's discussion here......viewtopic.php?f=27&t=93487

We need to deal with this issue of fair boards wanting to skirt the laws once and for all in one action, not deal with each fair board individually.

Lets discuss...everyone.

edit to add......Brian's mention of getting Yost involved sounds good to me also., and speaking to him directly sounds even better.
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby bamafan7 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:44 pm

You guys do great work. I did take a picture if you need it. I entered the Northeast corner entrance.
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby bamafan7 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:48 pm

Stark County Fair https://imgur.com/gallery/Xe1wKoN

No clue why the image won't display other than by a link.
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:12 am

Have BB62 talk to his contacts at Clermont Ag. Soc. and see if they will write a letter to Dave Yost requesting an opinion SPECIFIC to Ag. Soc.'s being political subdivisions for the purposes of R.C. 9.68 (12/28/19 version).

If an opinion gets published that is friendly to our cause, we need to raise funds to send 80+ registered letters next spring.

9.68 will be much stronger next year.

THEN let the games begin.
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby docachna » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:33 pm

The idea of an AG opinion is great, if you can wangle it.

As to Stark County, I’d go right to the Prosecutor, since the SO used him/her as an excuse. I won’t be surprised to find that no such conversation ever took place between the prosecutor and the SO.
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:54 pm

docachna wrote:... I won’t be surprised to find that no such conversation ever took place between the prosecutor and the SO.


I've talked to a bunch of prosecutors and law directors over the years...by phone, by email and in person. Any time the discussion headed toward property owned by their entity, they would bring up the idea that it was "private property".

In fact, it became my habit to ask that in the probe emails I send when there is signage that violates 9.68. They will almost always put it in writing that their city owned parks and county owned fairgrounds are "private property".

So, yeah, the prosecutor probably DID talk to the Sheriff, but they gave the Sheriff incorrect information.
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Re: Stark County Fair

Postby 3FULLMAGS+1 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:56 am

docachna wrote:The idea of an AG opinion is great, if you can wangle it.

As to Stark County, I’d go right to the Prosecutor, since the SO used him/her as an excuse. I won’t be surprised to find that no such conversation ever took place between the prosecutor and the SO.

In my conversation with Major Stance, (Stark county), on sat Aug ., 31st, he specifically said that the fair board had a face to face meeting with the stark co prosecutor and Sheriff Meyer .....so......we are going to pursue this as Quik as poss.

I have a life, and am self- employed, but I will try getting hold of the procecutor AND AG Yost this week, I just need to get their PH #s
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