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9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:33 pm
by Morne
So I FINALLY exhausted my supply of 115-gr FMJ slugs that I had been using in 9x19mm. Placed an order with X-Treme Bullets for their 124-gr CPRN 0.355" diameter slugs and they are slated to arrive next week.

Looking through the loading manuals I see a lot of uncertainty:


Lee 2nd Edition:
124-gr Copper plated Accurate #5 min 5.0, max 5.8
124-gr XTP Accurate #5 min 5.2, max 5.9
125-gr Jacketed Accurate #5 min 4.6, max 5.3
125-gr Jacketed W231 min 4.4, max 4.8

Speer #14:
124-gr TMJ/Jacketed Accurate #5 min 5.7, max 6.4
124-gr TMJ/Jacketed W231 min 4.0, max 4.5

Western Powders edition 6.0:
124-gr CPRN Accurate #5 min 5.4, max 6.4

Lyman 49th edition:
125-gr Jacketed HP Accurate #5 min 5.4, max 6.1
125-gr Jacketed HP W231 min 3.9, max 4.4

Hodgdon Website:
124-gr CPHBRNTP W231 min 3.9, max 4.4
124-gr Jacketed WSF min 4.7, max 5.3

So...what is a cat to do? I have Accurate #5 handy but have been trying to use it up in a .38 Special load lately. W231 is a staple powder for me and was what I used for 9x19mm 115-gr FMJ loads. WSF I just happen to have laying around and wouldn't mind an excuse to use it up.

Still...both W231 and AA#5 have substantially different ranges amongst these sources. With W231 I seem to have the best odds building a ladder between 4.0 and 4.4 grains, right? Or should I try to find a workable load with AA#5 and if so which resource do I believe? The single data point for WSF gives me pause (besides which I usually use WSF for a pet .45 ACP load).

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:44 pm
by true_pair
I like both WSF and 231 and used to load quite a bit with both using Ranier plated bullets. If I didn't find particular load data for plated bullets, I used the data for lead bullet since plated bullet is closer in relation to lead rather than jacketed.
For your load data look up some loads for lead bullets and see if you like any

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:59 pm
by Morne
true_pair wrote:I like both WSF and 231 and used to load quite a bit with both using Ranier plated bullets. If I didn't find particular load data for plated bullets, I used the data for lead bullet since plated bullet is closer in relation to lead rather than jacketed.
For your load data look up some loads for lead bullets and see if you like any

While that rule of thumb has historically been true with most plated bullets it is not true for those that use thicker plating like X-Treme. I have empirical evidence that X-Treme behave more like jacketed than they do bare lead from using them in other calibers (.38Spl and .45ACP).

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:28 pm
by jeep45238
Morne wrote:
true_pair wrote:I like both WSF and 231 and used to load quite a bit with both using Ranier plated bullets. If I didn't find particular load data for plated bullets, I used the data for lead bullet since plated bullet is closer in relation to lead rather than jacketed.
For your load data look up some loads for lead bullets and see if you like any

While that rule of thumb has historically been true with most plated bullets it is not true for those that use thicker plating like X-Treme. I have empirical evidence that X-Treme behave more like jacketed than they do bare lead from using them in other calibers (.38Spl and .45ACP).


Still better to be at lower pressures and work up than be inadvertently too high of a pressure.

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:57 pm
by Morne
Provided you don’t lodge a bullet in the barrel, which some of my first .38 plated loads using bare lead data darn near accomplished.

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:45 pm
by true_pair
From Xtreme website
"Our Copper Plated Bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp"

So I guess you can take your pick for load data of Jacketed or lead bullet at long as you follow the velocity recommendation

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:15 am
by Sevens
The risk of sticking copper plated slugs in a bore by running them -FAR- too light is absolutely real, however, it is far more prevalent in a revolver. A revolver has a flash gap that willfully bleeds critical pressure that a semiautomatic does not.

With that said, I have hands-on with tens of thousands of plated 124/9mm, many Berry's and far more Extreme. I run them as if they are absolutely FMJ bullets. My go-to load for 124 Xtreme in 9mm has been 4.4gr Hodgdon Universal and COAL that I don't recall for certain but I want to say is 1.140". My brass of choice is modern ATK. (Federal, Blazer, CCI)

I'll be running exactly these at Fun'n'Gun if you'd like to try them... from my pistol or yours.

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:31 am
by weakhand luke
I'm looking again for a good parabellum target/practice round. Not settled into anything yet, but Universal seems to be a good choice, PB too, but difficult to find these days.

What has me baffled is the few hundred WST loaded rounds I found in the basement. Back then, I had settled on 5.1 grains of WST, 124gr extreme bullet. I even modifed a little dandy rotor to drop exactly 5.1 grains. Many rounds used in a Browning Hi Power. Now when I research this load I find no data and worse, dire warnings to not use WST in 9mm. I recall being completely satified with the performance of this round and had no reason to look further. Also, I was buying WST by the 8#'s for shotgun target. Noticed no pressure signs, even loaded into blaser AL cases (gasp).

Hodgdon folks will not rationalize their decision to drop load data for WST, and that's ok. They do stand firm on not using it in 9mm.

Wondering if anyone else had any similiar experience with WST?

Dave

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:52 am
by jeep45238
Nope, but I've had stellar results from Prima V - cool, accurate, economical, and cleaner than titegroup.

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:39 am
by willbird
weakhand luke wrote:I'm looking again for a good parabellum target/practice round. Not settled into anything yet, but Universal seems to be a good choice, PB too, but difficult to find these days.

What has me baffled is the few hundred WST loaded rounds I found in the basement. Back then, I had settled on 5.1 grains of WST, 124gr extreme bullet. I even modifed a little dandy rotor to drop exactly 5.1 grains. Many rounds used in a Browning Hi Power. Now when I research this load I find no data and worse, dire warnings to not use WST in 9mm. I recall being completely satified with the performance of this round and had no reason to look further. Also, I was buying WST by the 8#'s for shotgun target. Noticed no pressure signs, even loaded into blaser AL cases (gasp).

Hodgdon folks will not rationalize their decision to drop load data for WST, and that's ok. They do stand firm on not using it in 9mm.

Wondering if anyone else had any similiar experience with WST?

Dave


Some of those powders work great at sedate handgun pressures, but the pressure curve approaches parallel to the Y axis when a certain pressure is reached....did a bit of google and folks had used it but noticed that even tiny changes in seating depth or powder charge cause large increases in apparent chamber pressure.

Bill

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:58 pm
by Morne
Since this thread has been brought back up...

I did a ladder load using 4.0/4.2/4.4 grains of W231.

I settled on 4.2 grains with a CCI-500 small pistol primer. Got average velocities of 878 fps from a 3.5" barrel Walther CCP and 987 fps from a 3.9" barrel Sig P320C.

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:44 pm
by weakhand luke
And since this thread has been brought up again again, it gives me a chance to ask if someone may know if Power Pistol is BE-84 and BE-86 is flash suppressed Power Pistol?

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:05 am
by Whirlwind06
According to the chart one page 11 of this pdf:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/ ... atalog.pdf
BE-86 is faster then Powder Pistol, but they are right next to each other.
I don't see BE-84 in my internet searches.

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:54 pm
by jeep45238
One thing I noticed on the 49th edition of the Lyman manual - they tend to give powder recommendations for some calibers - IE W231 and Bullseye giving exceptional accuracy for .38 Special, W231 being a good overall powder for 9mm, etc. - might be worth while to grab a copy for those that don't have one yet.

Re: 9x19mm 124-gr CPRN loading advice sought

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:25 am
by Whirlwind06
Whirlwind06 wrote:According to the chart one page 11 of this pdf:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/ ... atalog.pdf
BE-86 is faster then Powder Pistol, but they are right next to each other.
I don't see BE-84 in my internet searches.


After reading up a bit more I found that BE-84 is powder pistol. Sorry my search skills were lacking. :)