Re-engineering Hornady Dies

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mreising
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Re-engineering Hornady Dies

Post by mreising »

In all the years and thousands of rounds I've loaded, mostly using Lee dies, I have never broken a decapping pin. The Lee die has a collet that holds a smooth shank decapping spindle and if the pin/spindle encounters too much resistance, the spindle slides up rather than bending or breaking. Hornady dies use a "lightly threaded" decapping spindle with a replaceable tip. The threaded spindle is also held in place by a collet, but this collet is threaded so there is no slippage if resistance is encountered. I broke two pins in a week using a Hornady die set on my LnL AP Progressive. Taking a page from Lee's design, I took a Lee decapping spindle and bored the inside of the Hornady collet to accept the Lee spindle. This had the effect of removing some of the inside threads on the collet and opening up the hole in the top of the collet. It now grips the smooth Lee spindle tight enough to hold it but allows it to slide under excessive stress. I don't think I will need spare pins for the Hornady spindle now but I have them and unmodified collets if I want to return to the original configuration.
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Mark
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mreising
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Re: Re-engineering Hornady Dies

Post by mreising »

I just ran a hundred through the press, including some crimped primers, and no issues. It seems to be less problematic than the replaceable tips on the Hornady spindle. It seems like the Hornady tips work loose, even though it looks like they have red Loctite on retainer cap; once they start to loosen up they are vulnerable to getting off axis and breaking.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny

Mark
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Sevens
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Re: Re-engineering Hornady Dies

Post by Sevens »

I've been beating the tar out of Lee dies for a couple decades plus and in all those years and tens of thousands of rounds, I finally managed to actually break a Lee decapping pin. And frankly -- the only reason that it broke was because I had tightened the collet way beyond spec (just wasn't thinking much that day...) and when it hit a berdan primed piece of 9mm, I finally managed to fold & snap off the pin because the entire rod couldn't slide up as it was designed... due to my over-tightening of it.

Color wars in handloading is a fool's game, IMO, but I still give a nod to Lee on the design of the decapping rod/pin. It really is nearly indestructible. Can't really figure out why the other guys haven't found a way to approach it in a similar fashion. (patents and all)
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
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JustaShooter
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Re: Re-engineering Hornady Dies

Post by JustaShooter »

I have likewise been using Lee decapping dies for something like a quarter century or more and have only broken one - actually, broke two on the same set of 5.56 Mil Surp brass. Tightest primer crimps I've ever seen - actually, staked and sealed with some black stuff that was like epoxy - and undersized flash holes. I think I was actually expanding the flash holes with the pin. Anyway, I kept tightening the collet till I could get the primers out and managed to break one, then borrowed my friend's and broke his within the next dozen rounds. Gave up at that point, partially since I was out of decapping rods and partly because I was pretty much ready to just scrap that brass and forget about it. Of course, now I have a set of these in both 22 and 30 caliber:

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mreising
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Re: Re-engineering Hornady Dies

Post by mreising »

Sevens wrote: Color wars in handloading is a fool's game, IMO, but I still give a nod to Lee on the design of the decapping rod/pin. It really is nearly indestructible. Can't really figure out why the other guys haven't found a way to approach it in a similar fashion. (patents and all)
But Lee and Hornady are both red. I thought that meant they were the same :wink: . I have both Lee (mostly) and some Hornady dies and have never had any issue with the Lees. Many people make disparaging comments about their equipment but there really is nothing wrong with it. They take an interesting approach to design in some of their items, but it allows them to meet a price point while still providing decent equipment. Some of it leaves a bit to be desired and some of it is better than the other guys stuff. I like their Zip Trim device, it is quick and simple and I think gives me better results than my Hornady case trimmer.

FWIW, I have a set of RCBS 30/06 dies that were given to me in a trade; the decapping pin is broken in that set but since I'm not loading for that right now I haven't taken the time to order one or re-engineer them.
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buckeye43210
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Re: Re-engineering Hornady Dies

Post by buckeye43210 »

Lee also makes a Universal Decapping and Depriming Die. The part number is 90292.

It's an extra step, but as a big fan of the Unix Philosophy, I think a tool should do one thing and do it well...
mreising
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Re: Re-engineering Hornady Dies

Post by mreising »

buckeye43210 wrote:Lee also makes a Universal Decapping and Depriming Die. The part number is 90292.

It's an extra step, but as a big fan of the Unix Philosophy, I think a tool should do one thing and do it well...
Actually, I stole the decapping pin from my Universal Decapping die. I thought about using it at the first stage of the progressive but then everything has to shift one spot clockwise and I would have to give up the Powder Cop station. That wouldn't be the end of the world as I still look at the cases but it's nice to have it there.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny

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Klingon00
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Re: Re-engineering Hornady Dies

Post by Klingon00 »

buckeye43210 wrote:Lee also makes a Universal Decapping and Depriming Die. The part number is 90292.

It's an extra step, but as a big fan of the Unix Philosophy, I think a tool should do one thing and do it well...
I bought one at Cabela's in Columbus for case prep on brass that I neck resize only. Well worth it for me and neck resizing vastly increases the lifespan of my hard to find brass.
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Sevens
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Re: Re-engineering Hornady Dies

Post by Sevens »

If you use the ingenious Lee Collet neck-only size die (for bottle neck rifle brass) than that cool die also does the job of decapping for you.

As for a "universal decapping die", they are a solid tool for low bucks...
But I simply snag a much larger size die and it pretty much does the same thing --IF-- the rounds you wish to decap are a good bit smaller. For example, I keep the 7.62x54R sizing die (that I'll otherwise never use the rest of my life) spun-up in my old single stage press that I never, ever, ever use anymore at the far left end of the bench. That die sitting there is pretty much a "universal decap die" for any piece of brass with a smaller body than 7.62x54R.

Works for me. Truth is, I rarely have any need to decap any piece of brass that I'm not also sizing. And I'll never decap before tumbling, so there's hardly EVER a reason for me to decap anything before and/or outside of simply sizing that case.

But other folks have other processes and needs.
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
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JustaShooter
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Re: Re-engineering Hornady Dies

Post by JustaShooter »

Sevens wrote:As for a "universal decapping die", they are a solid tool for low bucks...
But I simply snag a much larger size die and it pretty much does the same thing --IF-- the rounds you wish to decap are a good bit smaller. For example, I keep the 7.62x54R sizing die (that I'll otherwise never use the rest of my life) spun-up in my old single stage press that I never, ever, ever use anymore at the far left end of the bench. That die sitting there is pretty much a "universal decap die" for any piece of brass with a smaller body than 7.62x54R.
Smaller body and larger (or equal) caliber, no? Or does it not have a neck expander button on the decapping rod?
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Sevens
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Re: Re-engineering Hornady Dies

Post by Sevens »

I'm like 95% a handgun loader & shooter, so if it's smaller than .45 ACP, the 7.62x52R size die will knock the primer out without touching anything.

I think. :P
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
mreising
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Re: Re-engineering Hornady Dies

Post by mreising »

Proof that my improvement works. I had a case pop out of the shell plate and I missed that it was laying on its side on the shell plate when I pulled the lever. I didn't get a full stroke, obviously, but the case was crushed and the primer punch spindle just slid up, nothing bent (except the case :) ).
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny

Mark
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