What kind of environment do you OC in?

[Werz]

The courts have generally held that open carry, in and of itself, is not grounds for a Terry stop in states where it is legal to open carry. In Black the state tried to get around this by arguing that felons can't possess guns so they have no way of knowing whether an open carrier is a felon until they do a records check. The court disagreed and said that being a felon is not the "default status." Conversely I'd bet that there is at least as many convicted felons as their are people with licenses. So when you turn the situation on its head where open carry is not allowed unless someone has a license it's probably fair to say that having a license is not the default status. Besides as the Class D statute is written having a license is a defense to an otherwise blanketly illegal act.

The United States Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals thought that was fair to say. United States v. Lewis, 674 F.3d 1298 (11th Cir. 2012).

[MyWifeSaidYes]

The United States Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals thought that was fair to say. United States v. Lewis, 674 F.3d 1298 (11th Cir. 2012).

Well, courts aren't perfect.

The Eleventh Circuit is in Florida and this case was decided while the Zimmerman case was really heating up.

Four guys, two officers. Two of the guys admit to having guns, either on them or nearby. Cops detain all four.

The reason given was that the officers did not know if the guns were possessed legally, due to the illegality of concealed weapons.


We don't have this problem as CHL holders in Ohio due to notification. When we get rid of notification, we'll have to address this issue as well.

And open carriers are not concealing.

[glocksmith]

The courts have generally held that open carry, in and of itself, is not grounds for a Terry stop in states where it is legal to open carry. In Black the state tried to get around this by arguing that felons can't possess guns so they have no way of knowing whether an open carrier is a felon until they do a records check.

I can understand the state's position about not knowing an OC'ers status (felony or no)...but I'm still scratching my head and wondering why the Hell a convicted felon would OC in public? Both the judicial system and the crooks are smart enough to know better.

[Werz]

The United States Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals thought that was fair to say. United States v. Lewis, 674 F.3d 1298 (11th Cir. 2012).

Well, courts aren't perfect.

True. However, they do have the constitutional authority to interpret the Fourth Amendment, whereas you do not.

The Eleventh Circuit is in Florida and this case was decided while the Zimmerman case was really heating up.

And United States v. Black,707 F.3d 531, 540 (4th Cir. 2013) was in the Fourth Circuit, in North Carolina. Ohio is neither in the Eleventh Circuit nor in the Fourth Circuit; it is in the Sixth Circuit. And the Sixth Circuit upheld the summary judgment against Leonard Embody in Tennessee in his open-carry lawsuit under 42 U.S.C. § 1983. Embody v. Ward, 695 F.3d 577, 581 (6th Cir. 2012). Nevertheless, Lewis, Embody and Black can all be harmonized under the same rationale, and all have been decided within the past two years.

So what's your point?

We don't have this problem as CHL holders in Ohio due to notification. When we get rid of notification, we'll have to address this issue as well.

And open carriers are not concealing.

But open carriers cannot carry into D-permit liquor premises without a CHL. And that was the original point. Which means this issue is a current one, not a future one.

[natertot]

I don't OC often, but when I do its more did a "why" then a "where". I do it in hopes of informing others of our freedoms. Its amazing how many ccw holders do not know it is legal to OC.

[BB62]

I don't OC often, but when I do its more did a "why" then a "where". I do it in hopes of informing others of our freedoms. Its amazing how many ccw holders do not know it is legal to OC.

It's amazing how many PEOPLE don't know it's legal to OC!

[MyWifeSaidYes]

I don't OC often, but when I do its more did a "why" then a "where". I do it in hopes of informing others of our freedoms. Its amazing how many ccw holders do not know it is legal to OC.

It's amazing how many PEOPLE don't know it's legal to OC!

What's interesting about natertot's comment is that a CHL holder is supposed to have read the AG's handbook.

A certification by the applicant that the applicant has read the pamphlet prepared by the Ohio peace officer training commission...

And the current (2011) handbook lists open carry being legal on the bottom of page 17.

Open Carry
Ohio’s concealed carry laws do not regulate “open” carry of firearms. If
you openly carry, use caution. The open carry of firearms is a legal activity
in Ohio.

If the people that ARE supposed to know open carry is legal don't know, how do we get ALL Ohioans up to speed?

I think we may need WAY more open carry events this season.

[Flhrci]

I don't OC often, but when I do its more did a "why" then a "where". I do it in hopes of informing others of our freedoms. Its amazing how many ccw holders do not know it is legal to OC.

It's amazing how many PEOPLE don't know it's legal to OC!

I did not know till around the time I took my CHL class in November. Now I OC often.

David

[Dietrich Keppler]

Answer A. I typically open carry in rural environments hiking hocking hills when I am hiking. Though, on rare occasion I will open carry while walking on a bike path on the East side of Columbus.

[BB62]

I don't OC often, but when I do its more did a "why" then a "where". I do it in hopes of informing others of our freedoms. Its amazing how many ccw holders do not know it is legal to OC.

It's amazing how many PEOPLE don't know it's legal to OC!

I did not know till around the time I took my CHL class in November. Now I OC often.

David

Congrats to your instructor. A number of other instructors have misinformed their students.

[BB62]

...If the people that ARE supposed to know open carry is legal don't know, how do we get ALL Ohioans up to speed?

I think we may need WAY more open carry events this season.

I might be persuaded to attend some... that is, if someone will hold my hand!

[MyWifeSaidYes]

BB62, I would suggest getting in touch with flhrci at the next event you both attend, possibly the Patriot's Day rally at the statehouse that Chuck is organizing for April 19th.

Flhrci is getting used to open carry and could probably help you build your own confidence level with OC'ing.

He can help show you that most people don't actually "look down" on open carriers.

[Flhrci]

BB62, I would suggest getting in touch with flhrci at the next event you both attend, possibly the Patriot's Day rally at the statehouse that Chuck is organizing for April 19th.

Flhrci is getting used to open carry and could probably help you build your own confidence level with OC'ing.

He can help show you that most people don't actually "look down" on open carriers.

Uh oh, I have been outed! '

Would be glad to help out someone else. I have been learning mostly on my own and it has been a nervous but fairly smooth road.

David

[BB62]

BB62, I would suggest getting in touch with flhrci at the next event you both attend, possibly the Patriot's Day rally at the statehouse that Chuck is organizing for April 19th.

Flhrci is getting used to open carry and could probably help you build your own confidence level with OC'ing.

He can help show you that most people don't actually "look down" on open carriers.

Well, I do have to confess that I look down on open carriers, among others.

[Flhrci]

Well, I do have to confess that I look down on open carriers, among others.

Well, if you are taller than 5'5" than you will be looking down on me. No big deal.

David