Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

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BB62
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Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by BB62 »

This afternoon I entered the Kroger store on Glenway Avenue in Cincinnati, intending to purchase some gift cards, but first wanted to use the restroom.

As I was standing at the porcelain object on the wall in the men's restroom I heard a voice behind me say "Hello" and ask how I was. I turned around to see who it was and found it was a security guard (not a police officer). He said "Can I ask you to leave that outside?" Since I had no intention of leaving what I had in my hand outside, I said "Leave what?" :wink:

I think he said something about there being a bank in the store, but since I was otherwise occupied I said something to the effect of "How about if we talk about it after I get done here?" After two (or three) repetitions of his request and my request, he finally left the restroom. I was hoping he didn't repeat the request again because at that point I was really irritated, thinking "Does this guy really think this is the place and time to have a discussion??"

Anyway, I left the restroom and found him in front of the customer service desk and asked what was up. He said that he was told that since a bank in the store and since they sell liquor, no carry was allowed. He said that not all stores had banks or wine-tasting, but that the policy applied only to such stores. I asked him "Who said that?" and he said "The management", so I asked to speak to the manager. I then told him that I was an instructor, and that the law wasn't what he was told it was. It was a pleasant conversation, he told me that he personally had no problem with open or concealed carry, but that he was doing as he was told.

The manager arrived and repeated what the guard said about their policy - no OC or CC in certain stores. I questioned it, stating that it was my understanding that Kroger's policy was to follow state law, and asked if the policy had changed. I told him that if it had, I would put out the word, but that the last time the policy had to be clarified, it resulted in lots and lots of calls, nationwide, to Kroger's customer service center. I asked him to please check on the policy, and he did so. He came back and said that he had checked with loss prevention and found that unless the customer was "causing a problem" (like "causing" a customer to complain) that carry of any sort was fine.

So, we're back to who is "causing" a problem! <sigh>

I asked and received the name and phone number for the manager and the loss prevention employee, as well LP guy's e-mail address.

It's late tonight, and I'll work up a letter to the LP guy, but in the meanwhile I'd appreciate contact information higher up in the food chain if anyone has it.

This is the second such instance I'm aware of this year, the other being here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showt ... ost1979034" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I certainly don't want Kroger to establish a policy other than "we follow state law", but no one yet that I've seen has documentation/documentation from someone other than a customer service rep of just what their policy is - and that just doesn't cut it.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by djthomas »

It wasn't the gun. It was the hat.
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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by BB62 »

djthomas wrote:It wasn't the gun. It was the hat.
Usually I only take my hat off for one thing... but I didn't have it on today. :wink:
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by TJW815 »

BB62, why are you still wanting to complain? They were incorrect, you asked them to clarify, they admitted fault. So now you want to "call the higher ups"

Before I got my chl I thought the same thing. That you couldn't take it into a place that has alcohol for sell in any way shape or form. I also naively believed that banks were prohibited as well.

If you really want to make a positive impression on them. Email them the supporting laws and explain why carrying is not prohibited and kindly ask them to send it up the chain.

If you want to call and complain to the higher ups, they will take it as a direct complaint against the LP and the manager. Not cool. Remember they are sub middle class workers (making maybe 35-45k /yr). No need to get them in trouble over a little confusion.

Btw, the particular large volume retailer I work for policy in regards to open carry had a line in it referring to if the customer is causing a comotion then we are to ask him to cover up. Obviously not verbatim.

Now I would probably complain on the lp's confrontation while you were, indisposed. Just bad manners. The manager seems like he genuinely tried to help clear up any confusion.

Eta: I may be able to get ahold of a copy of Krogers written policy on this. No promises though.
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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by BobK »

Keep working Krogers and you might help accomplish the Starbucks syndrome.
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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by schmieg »

And don't forget that if a non-carrying customer is causing a disturbance, they will probably ask him to leave as well. I agree - issue resolved.
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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by tbrew85 »

I frequently open carry too. I agree with the others, issue resolved. Pushing further is very unlikely to produce any greater positive results.
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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by Brian D. »

Think I'd be more inclined to focus follow up efforts on educating the security company Kroger's employs. Of course for all I know they use eleventy seven different security companies. Obviously this particular guard was very ignorant of at least a few parts of the Ohio Revised Code, otherwise he'd have known he'd (allegedly) been fed lousy information.
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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by BB62 »

Brian D. wrote:Think I'd be more inclined to focus follow up efforts on educating the security company Kroger's employs...
In order to do that (somewhat) reliably, one must contact corporate - which I will be doing.

To those of you who think or have posted that this is about slamming low-level employees or it's Starbuck's redux: :roll: :roll:

To everyone else: I'm disappointed that a number of you think the matter is resolved. It's not - but my incident is part of a bigger picture.

If anyone has a copy of, or a link to Kroger's policy regarding the issue, it would be useful, and thanks in advance.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by Brian D. »

Hmm. Like many people I normally only shop at a couple of Kroger stores. One seems to have no police or uniformed security, at least early in the morning. The other has switched from Cincinnati PD detail officers to private security. The company's name and logo is on the shirts. (No, I don't recall the name at this moment.) Did you happen to catch the company's name, or was the uniform even logo'd?
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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by BB62 »

Brian D. wrote:Hmm. Like many people I normally only shop at a couple of Kroger stores. One seems to have no police or uniformed security, at least early in the morning. The other has switched from Cincinnati PD detail officers to private security. The company's name and logo is on the shirts. (No, I don't recall the name at this moment.) Did you happen to catch the company's name, or was the uniform even logo'd?
It came up in my conversation with the guard - something like "SB"??

The guard's "uniform" has patches only on the sleeves, which I didn't read, but nothing on the front. It's not immediately clear that they are guards, except the duds look workmanlike - and then there's the gun they wear.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

BB62 only fixed a symptom, not the actual problem.

With PNC bank, the top-level people told the field-level people what the policy was. The actual problem turned out to be misinformed MIDDLE-level people telling the field-level people a different policy. The fact that their firearms policies differ from state-to-state only furthered the misinformation.

As far as the Starbuck's syndrome, BB62 did NOT call for a bunch of long gun open carriers to flood their local overpriced Kroger store. He's one person who will be trying to get a corporate person to educate, or re-educate, the store security, store managers and, hopefully, regional managers, about the EXISTING corporate policy.

He's not going to call about HOW he was treated. That would be a direct complaint against local employees who were simply misinformed. He's going to call about WHY he was bothered at all. We have been through this before with Kroger. Why does this issue persist?
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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by NavyChief »

Golly. Kroger's? Again?

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=42653" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by BB62 »

NavyChief wrote:Golly. Kroger's? Again?

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=42653" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I hope you appreciate the fact that you forced me to read the WHOLE thread :shock: - but seriously, thanks loads for the link.

Either I wasn't aware of it, or had forgotten about it. Now that I think about it, I seem to recall asking the local Kroger to pull their sign - then showing the manager where it was. But I'm not sure if that was the 2004 incident or 2010's. :?

Anyway, on page 20 or so of the thread you noted your prowess climbing up and down the corporate ladder, so I'd like to speak with you about my incident, and who might be higher in the food chain than the Loss Management contact given me. I will PM you the name given to me, please PM me back, maybe with your contact info, as I'd like to speak to you.

Thanks!
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Kroger - "Can I ask you to leave that outside?"

Post by NavyChief »

BB62 wrote:. . . you noted your prowess climbing up and down the corporate ladder . . .
I think "prowess" is an is an exaggerated term for what I did. Perhaps "persistence" would be more accurate. And you PM is replied to.
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