OC Video

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

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Werz
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Re: OC Video

Post by Werz »

whoownsyou wrote:
Werz wrote:Of course. It's never been about one's right to express themselves. It's a matter of whether the mode of expression benefits us as a whole, or whether it just benefits one person's ego.
All resistance benefits all of us... until we assist our enemies in attacking our brother to court the favor of our enemies. People who would try to take your guns away when you've committed no crime do not see you beyond your gun. No amount of butt kissing will sway them.
Whatever, Sparky. You're a cute little revolutionary, but after a while, you get boring.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
JmE
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Re: OC Video

Post by JmE »

With all due respect, Werz... one does not beg for their rights if they expect to regain realistic usage of them. Reading your post a few back, I'm reminded of the call for discussion on "reasonable gun control". There's nothing reasonable about stripping Liberty from an individual. If legislation passes that makes exercising the right to keep and bear arms more difficult then so be it. I won't sacrifice my right to carry (openly in this case) just to have the privilege of licensed carry available. If the right is not defended to the highest degree then the privilege is tenuous at best. Frankly, I'd rather the government leave me alone but it's obvious that it won't without some "encouragement". When the warmer weather breaks, I'll be giving the government more "encouragement" than I ever have before. Hopefully more people than ever will be carrying openly as a daily habit this spring and summer.
Then, Sir, we will give them the bayonet! - Gen.Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it. - Gen. Robert E. Lee
If we must die, we die defending our rights. - Chief Sitting Bull

Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn't he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? - Plato
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Werz
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Re: OC Video

Post by Werz »

JmE wrote:When the warmer weather breaks, I'll be giving the government more "encouragement" than I ever have before. Hopefully more people than ever will be carrying openly as a daily habit this spring and summer.
I open carry quite a lot during warm weather. Nobody ever gives me any trouble. Mostly, I get polite questions, and I provide polite answers.

Want to know the trick to that?

People don't notice the gun on your hip as much as the chip on your shoulder.

HTH.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
JmE
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Re: OC Video

Post by JmE »

Werz wrote:I open carry quite a lot during warm weather. Nobody ever gives me any trouble. Mostly, I get polite questions, and I provide polite answers.

Want to know the trick to that?

People don't notice the gun on your hip as much as the chip on your shoulder.

HTH.
You start with a nice reply and I'm smiling, thinking, "Gee, I'm going to give him props!" and then you insult. I have no chip on my shoulder. Perhaps the chip is on one of yours?

Anyway, I'm aware that you OC and I am grateful that you do. Please carry on.
Then, Sir, we will give them the bayonet! - Gen.Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it. - Gen. Robert E. Lee
If we must die, we die defending our rights. - Chief Sitting Bull

Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn't he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? - Plato
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Werz
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Re: OC Video

Post by Werz »

JmE wrote:
Werz wrote:I open carry quite a lot during warm weather. Nobody ever gives me any trouble. Mostly, I get polite questions, and I provide polite answers.

Want to know the trick to that?

People don't notice the gun on your hip as much as the chip on your shoulder.

HTH.
You start with a nice reply and I'm smiling, thinking, "Gee, I'm going to give him props!" and then you insult. I have no chip on my shoulder. Perhaps the chip is on one of yours?

Anyway, I'm aware that you OC and I am grateful that you do. Please carry on.
FWIW, that was meant as a generic "you." But your response clarifies my point. Don't take things personally. If you walk down the street waiting for the police to stop you, they probably will. Sure, go ahead carry recording devices, but if you want people to accept that carrying a gun is no big deal, you need to convey that attitude yourself. If you're anxious for a confrontation, you'll probably get one.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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Re: OC Video

Post by whoownsyou »

There was no insult. Think of it in terms of "People don't notice the gun on one's hip as much as the chip on one's shoulder." It's a quaint phrase, but is as inaccurate as it is irrelevant. There are people who, when they see a gun, they get tunnel vision that blocks out even such key things as behavior and intent. Even if this were not true, they haven't yet written legislation against having a chip on one's shoulder, though it gets enforced sometimes all the same :lol: Nor could they. Everybody has an axe to grind. Doesn't mean people act upon it.
"If you can get the cows to attack each other whenever anybody brings up the reality of their situation, then you don't have to spend nearly as much controlling them directly." -Stefan Molyneux

"Most of what I do can be summed up by: I go around telling people that they should be free and they tell me, 'No, I shouldn't.'" -Larken Rose
JmE
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Re: OC Video

Post by JmE »

Werz wrote:FWIW, that was meant as a generic "you." But your response clarifies my point. Don't take things personally. If you walk down the street waiting for the police to stop you, they probably will. Sure, go ahead carry recording devices, but if you want people to accept that carrying a gun is no big deal, you need to convey that attitude yourself. If you're anxious for a confrontation, you'll probably get one.
Fair enough and I apologize for misunderstanding your post. I also apologize if you were insulted by my posts as I do respect you and what you do.

I also wholeheartedly agree that if one walks with attitude, one can expect to get attitude in return. I'm usually pretty relaxed about it but I wasn't (once) when I OCed in violation of the signs at the fairgrounds. I was polite but also know why I was nervous. Anyway, I believe that we agree and I hope that you don't come away from reading my posts believing that I, in any way, want a confrontation. The best times OCing is when I'm completely ignored. I hope that one day becomes the normal reaction as I prefer to be left alone. 8)
Then, Sir, we will give them the bayonet! - Gen.Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it. - Gen. Robert E. Lee
If we must die, we die defending our rights. - Chief Sitting Bull

Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn't he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? - Plato
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Werz
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Re: OC Video

Post by Werz »

JmE wrote:I also wholeheartedly agree that if one walks with attitude, one can expect to get attitude in return.
Well, if you accept that proposition, then you will probably like this study, which was published in the Journal of Communication more than 30 years ago but is still relevant today, and which may be of particular interest in these forums.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
JmE
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:41 am

Re: OC Video

Post by JmE »

That study is informative. The premise and some of the findings shouldn't be all that surprising to those that have grown up/lived in larger cities and those who have spent time around true sociopaths. It's instinct for predatory behavior. Unfortunately, those same clues are important to be aware of when dealing with anyone that might want to mess with someone. When I was much younger, I was singled out by officers more often when I exhibited the "victim" nonverbal cues as opposed to exhibiting more of the "non-victim" variety. Another tricky aspect when dealing with anyone that has a mind to test the waters is one doesn't want to be viewed as an overt challenge to their perceived authority. That too can invite trouble. There is a balance, especially when one is a short, older male like me. :wink: Then, there is the "any dude who looked different" aspect. I'll stop there as we may have taken a few different inferences on OC away from reading the same study.

I agree with you that it's a worthwhile study for members here to read. Thank you for sharing it.
Then, Sir, we will give them the bayonet! - Gen.Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it. - Gen. Robert E. Lee
If we must die, we die defending our rights. - Chief Sitting Bull

Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn't he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? - Plato
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BobK
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Re: OC Video

Post by BobK »

whoownsyou wrote:
Werz wrote:Of course. It's never been about one's right to express themselves. It's a matter of whether the mode of expression benefits us as a whole, or whether it just benefits one person's ego.
All resistance benefits all of us... ...

Nowhere in any legislation ever written is there a clause ....

You need the so-called "jerks" just as much .....
I don't think you understand the point he is making.

It is comforting to point to the phrase "Shall Not Be Infringed!". I get it. Heck, I even have it in my signature.

But over the long term fight for gun rights, we can only be successful by maintaining a clear majority of the electorate.

By "long term", I remember the GCA of 1968 quite clearly. I remember being able to purchase surplus WWII Thompson Machine guns in mail order catalogs for $100. I remember being a 12 year-old boy who could walk into Sears and walk out with a rifle without worrying about any paperwork.

So again, over the long term fight for gun rights, we can only be successful by maintaining a clear majority of the electorate.

Remember, anyone who can go out and get enough signatures is allowed to place an Ohio Constitutional Amendment in the ballot of any statewide election. Our gun rights are only as safe as the next election.

That means we need to be successful in maintaining a clear majority of the electorate.

Lose that, we lose everything.

So back to your point. "All resistance benefits all of us... ... Nowhere in any legislation ever written is there a clause ....You need the so-called "jerks" just as much .....".

Take off any blinders related to thinking about "expressing rights" related to "resistance", and start thinking about effective strategies for winning and keeping the support of a clear majority of the electorate.

Shifting gears:

There is currently debate in Texas over open carry because there is a current bill in the Legislature to allow open carry. There was also an open carry bill that failed to pass in the last legislative session.

One point I've noticed is there is not even a clear consensus among Pro-2A gun owners who carry firearms every day regarding open carry here in Texas. We are failing to win the support of Pro-2A gun owners who carry firearms every day because they are turned off and not supportive of some of the antics expressed by a sub-group of militant open carry supporters who have alienated and irritated the very constituency they need before they can win any legislative success in this state.

If we cannot win the hearts and minds of those people, how can we win the hearts and minds of the urban anti-gun liberals in Austin, Dallas, and Houston?

So your statements about "all resistance" and "needing jerks" is clearly out of touch with the reality of what is necessary to advance our cause. I would proffer that the more effective attitude is to realize that each and every one of us are ambassadors for the gun culture on a daily basis. The hearts and minds we attract to our cause help us to maintain clear electorate majorities. Notice I said "attract to our cause", because no one becomes an ally by arguing with them and shouting at them. The desirability of maintaining such a majority should be evident.
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).

This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
More Obamination. Idiots. Can't we find an electable (R) for 2016?
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Re: OC Video

Post by Tweed Ring »

Exactly. It's all about keeping our friends in office, and unceremoniously tossing our enemies out of elected office. Such struggles must be on-going, as there are always some do-gooders who want to overthrow our Bill of Rights.

This takes OPM (Other People's Money) and OPE (Other People's Energy) to make it happen and to keep it happening. The game is in Congress and in our 57 state legislatures. Everything else is simply superfluous.

Hopping up and down like a bunny is interesting to watch, may even be fun for the hopper, but it just doesn't get anyone elected.
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Re: OC Video

Post by Werz »

Tweed Ring wrote:Hopping up and down like a bunny is interesting to watch, may even be fun for the hopper, but it just doesn't get anyone elected.
Convincing the bunny of that is another matter altogether.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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Re: OC Video

Post by whoownsyou »

I appreciate the time you've taken in weighing in on the matter, BobK. A couple counterpoints if I may.
BobK wrote:I don't think you understand the point he is making.
Not agreeing is not not understanding. I don't agree that a free man needs the permission of another person to breathe, eat, sleep, or do anything that doesn't hurt anybody.
BobK wrote:So your statements about "all resistance" and "needing jerks" is clearly out of touch with the reality of what is necessary to advance our cause.
I disagree. I think that suggesting there is only one right way to accomplish something is out of touch. Some people write letters. Some people attend hearings. Some people openly defy. You are free to try and talk to your attacker in an attempt to mitigate an attack. You are also free to defend yourself, by whatever means you have available to you. Both have the potential of leading to your success, so it would be out of touch to suggest that one is wrong just because your personal values tell you the other is better.

If you believe it is OUR cause, then you recognize that it entails more than one person, and therefore more than one approach, technique, etc. We should respect and embrace each other for this common goal. You here have taken some time in an attempt to try and influence and I appreciate that. My comments were more for the benefit of those who would toss their brothers aside like yesterday's jam for not seeing things the way they do.
"If you can get the cows to attack each other whenever anybody brings up the reality of their situation, then you don't have to spend nearly as much controlling them directly." -Stefan Molyneux

"Most of what I do can be summed up by: I go around telling people that they should be free and they tell me, 'No, I shouldn't.'" -Larken Rose
Tweed Ring
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Re: OC Video

Post by Tweed Ring »

Werz wrote:
Tweed Ring wrote:Hopping up and down like a bunny is interesting to watch, may even be fun for the hopper, but it just doesn't get anyone elected.
Convincing the bunny of that is another matter altogether.
With all the years I have spent doing politics, I have learned I cannot reach everybody. But, I certainly give it a good try, then move on.

My friends and I are in the process of welcoming a nice young man, a former Liberal Democrat, and his family, into the Ohio Republican Party. He is from a long line of Liberals: what changed him was increasing violent crime in his neighborhood, fear for the safety of his family, and a newly found desire to collect and fire guns.

I'm more that willing to assist the aforementioned young man. Conversely, I tend to waste but little times on the bunnies.
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Re: OC Video

Post by JmE »

BobK wrote:One point I've noticed is there is not even a clear consensus among Pro-2A gun owners who carry firearms every day regarding open carry here in Texas. We are failing to win the support of Pro-2A gun owners who carry firearms every day because they are turned off and not supportive of some of the antics expressed by a sub-group of militant open carry supporters who have alienated and irritated the very constituency they need before they can win any legislative success in this state.

If we cannot win the hearts and minds of those people, how can we win the hearts and minds of the urban anti-gun liberals in Austin, Dallas, and Houston?

So your statements about "all resistance" and "needing jerks" is clearly out of touch with the reality of what is necessary to advance our cause. I would proffer that the more effective attitude is to realize that each and every one of us are ambassadors for the gun culture on a daily basis. The hearts and minds we attract to our cause help us to maintain clear electorate majorities. Notice I said "attract to our cause", because no one becomes an ally by arguing with them and shouting at them. The desirability of maintaining such a majority should be evident.
At some point, this is a strategy of appeasement and is doomed if government has become too corrupt to stop by conventional means. I'm in the camp of those that believe the government has become too corrupt and too powerful. The true Marxists and their "useful idiots" won't be swayed by attempts to capture their hearts and minds. We'll only be whistling Dixie while government grows in power. So, I guess that's a huge schism between some of us. I believe that the hour is much later in our Republic than some might believe. Those of you trying to win over liberals and make nice are important but those of us who keep a watchful eye on government encroachment are important as well. I'm not an ambassador for anything, don't purport to be, and am not trying to be ... I'm just a man trying to live my life... free.
Then, Sir, we will give them the bayonet! - Gen.Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it. - Gen. Robert E. Lee
If we must die, we die defending our rights. - Chief Sitting Bull

Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn't he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? - Plato
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