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Valet Parking

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:56 pm
by gaptrick
Am I breaking the law by stowing a normally concealed carried firearm under the seat and then allowing a valet to park my car while I enter a posted building?

Re: Valet Parking

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:08 pm
by JustaShooter
If it isn't locked up so that the valet can't access it, then probably - the law is a bit vague, but I think you'd be guilty of the following:

2923.16 Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle.

(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.


Since you would be exiting the vehicle, knowing you left the firearm where it was accessible to the valet.

IANAL and all that, but I'd recommend finding a way to either lock it up so the valet couldn't access it, or unload and properly store it for transport as if you didn't have a CHL.

Re: Valet Parking

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:44 pm
by gaptrick
Thanks for the lesson. I thought there was something that mentioned "KNOWINGLY" somewhere in the ORC and thought it applied here, but I'm clearly mistaken.

I'll spell out my story once I get in front of a keyboard on a desk!

Re: Valet Parking

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:11 pm
by WY_Not
Would it be the owner who is breaking the law or the valet?

Re: Valet Parking

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:21 pm
by welshj
WY_Not wrote:Would it be the owner who is breaking the law or the valet?


My opinion on this- both. One knowingly, the other unwittingly.

Without a CHL, it is unlawful to transport without being stored in a case, separated from the ammunition and clear. For example, I get out of the car and leave my loaded firearm in the car with the wife. If a cop pulls up for some reason, and in the process- searches my vehicle... she gets charged with improper handling/transport of firearm in a vehicle... as she does not have a CHL. I possibly get charged with not securing it???, as I didnt lock the doors and secure it when I left. In other states like michigan, with handgun registry- she'd be in possession illegally, and I'd be in trouble for unsecured, and improper transfer.

Example for valet-

I come home late, and tired from work... accidentally leave my gun in the car glovebox. (Pants on, gun on guy... not gonna happen, but for instance....)

She gets up early in the morning and goes to the store not knowing it's in the glovebox.
Gets pulled over- same scenario.
Under the letter of the law, she's responsible for the contents of the vehicle as she's operating it. Unlawful transport/handling charge.

Just my thoughts... but ??

The only possible caveat I could think of-
How does any of this apply while on private property?

One would assume anywhere a valet service would be offered- minus a VA hospital (federal property) or a regular hospital- would be private property?

Re: Valet Parking

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:35 am
by Brian D.
I first brought up the valet thing to legislators before we got the original law in 2004, and intermittently since. All I ever got in response was "Meh" or "Interesting, let me get back to you on that", which, of course, they didn't.

Re: Valet Parking

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:55 am
by JustaShooter
WY_Not wrote:Would it be the owner who is breaking the law or the valet?

My opinion is only the owner would be breaking the law. Since the law does say "knowingly", and the valet would be unaware of the presence of the handgun, I don't see how they would be guilty. The owner, however, "knowingly" left the gun in the car so that it was accessible to the valet.

Would the owner ever get prosecuted, or even arrested? Unlikely, unless something bad happened.

Re: Valet Parking

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:51 am
by Glock Rock
isn’t this where one of those $20 lock boxes with cable keep you legal?

https://thegunzone.com/best-car-gun-safes/

Re: Valet Parking

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:42 am
by welshj
Glock Rock wrote:isn’t this where one of those $20 lock boxes with cable keep you legal?

https://thegunzone.com/best-car-gun-safes/


Yes and no... lol.

I use one in my truck all the time for work.
But, like my example with the wife- without her having a CHL, she cant have a weapon in the car with ammo in it, or loaded magazines... unless I'm in the car.

It's kinda stupid to me.

My fix for my problem is her to get her CHL.
My problem with the fix is getting her to shoot so she can actually take the class and hit something. She has the want for the class, has no interest in practicing.
She just wants to carry.

Smh... I dont know which scares me more.

Re: Valet Parking

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:25 pm
by JustaShooter
welshj wrote:
Glock Rock wrote:isn’t this where one of those $20 lock boxes with cable keep you legal?

https://thegunzone.com/best-car-gun-safes/


Yes and no... lol.

I use one in my truck all the time for work.
But, like my example with the wife- without her having a CHL, she cant have a weapon in the car with ammo in it, or loaded magazines... unless I'm in the car.


I think yes for the valet, but as you noted, not for your wife assuming she knows the loaded firearm is there.

Oh, and the loaded magazine thing has changed. AS long as the loaded magazines aren't inserted into the firearm, and the firearm and loaded magazines are stored properly, she can have a firearm and loaded magazines in the car when you aren't there.

Firearm in a closed package, box, or case
Loaded magazines in a compartment within the vehicle that cannot be accessed without leaving the vehicle or stored in a container that provides complete and separate enclosure.

Re: Valet Parking

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:28 pm
by welshj
^ awesome to hear that... I've always considered it a pain in the butt.
Curious when it changed? I missed it.


I'm still kind of screwed on that front though... we have a jeep compass suv!
No separate compartments. Lol... everything is just over the seats... :D

Re: Valet Parking

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:41 pm
by JustaShooter
welshj wrote:^ awesome to hear that... I've always considered it a pain in the butt.
Curious when it changed? I missed it.


I'm still kind of screwed on that front though... we have a jeep compass suv!
No separate compartments. Lol... everything is just over the seats... :D

It changed back in 2013 I think...

In a Jeep, unloaded gun in a case (like one of those zippered gun pouches), under the seat, and loaded mags in the closed center console or closed glove box.