Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby nam1975 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:52 pm

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the ferry's are like airports, train stations, bus stations etc.....They have pretty strict USCG and TSA regulations to follow.
I'd guess some research would start here and might be federal.

The local PIB LEO's can't say anything...take it over on a private boat for instance....
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby kcclark » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:46 am

My experience with the Miller Ferry is on this page:

CCW on Lake Erie
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby mropencarry » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:27 am

I wrote Jet express an email;

"Dear Sirs,
On a recent visit to your jet express in Port Clinton, I noticed the sign banning weapons aboard your ship. I'm aware of the previous laws that applied to vessels. However, the current laws allow concealed hand guns for those licensed to carry them.

"http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/1547.69

(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a vessel in a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger.

(D) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a vessel unless it is unloaded and is carried in one of the following ways:

(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In plain sight with the action opened or the weapon stripped, or, if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or that cannot easily be stripped, in plain sight.

(H)(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(2) Divisions (C) and (D) of this section do not apply to a person who transports or possesses a handgun in a vessel and who, at the time of that transportation or possession, is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code, unless the person knowingly is in a place on the vessel described in division (B) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code."

My question to you is; with these current laws in place, do the operators and owners of the Jet Express still forbid the carrying of hand guns - albeit legal - on your vessels? I anxiously await your reply."

And they replied;

"Thank you for your inquiry into our policy on weapons aboard our vessel. Our general suggestion is to leave your firearms at home, :roll: federal laws and US Coast Guard requirements make it difficult for us to accommodate our guests who carry handguns. (maybe we should carry a permit or something) Our vessel is regulated by federal laws and policies established by Homeland Security, any person wishing to transport a firearm must first check it in at the dock and have it secured for transport where it will be locked with the captain in the pilot house (providing the captain is okay with transporting the weapon). Upon arriving to Put-in-Bay, Put-in-Bay police will meet the vessel at the dock to make sure all paperwork :? is in order with the carrier.



Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Thanks,

Lance Woodworth

Director of Operations

Put-in-Bay Boat Line Company, The Jet Express

3 N. Monroe Street

Port Clinton, OH 43452

419-732-1JET


"
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby charben » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:11 pm

mropencarry wrote: Put-in-Bay police will meet the vessel at the dock to make sure all paperwork :? is in order with the carrier.


That's what concerns me. WHAT paperwork? My CHL? It seems odd that the ferry would have stricter rules than commercial aircraft.
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby muxtech » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:47 am

mropencarry wrote:And they replied;

"Thank you for your inquiry into our policy on weapons aboard our vessel. Our general suggestion is to leave your firearms at home, :roll: federal laws and US Coast Guard requirements make it difficult for us to accommodate our guests who carry handguns. (maybe we should carry a permit or something) Our vessel is regulated by federal laws and policies established by Homeland Security, any person wishing to transport a firearm must first check it in at the dock and have it secured for transport where it will be locked with the captain in the pilot house (providing the captain is okay with transporting the weapon). Upon arriving to Put-in-Bay, Put-in-Bay police will meet the vessel at the dock to make sure all paperwork :? is in order with the carrier.
"
This is unacceptable. I have a hunch their "policy" was written by the PIB chief of police. Notice how they try to imply these are federal rules? Liars. :evil:
Funny how the "federal" regulations for Jet Express are different from Miller Ferry. No one asked JXP for their "general suggestion." This is why their "security policies" are not listed on their website. They don't want to put this illegal piece of crap in writing for all to see and challenge. They would rather strongarm people into having to lock it in their car or stay ashore when the captain decides he's "not ok with it." This sounds like a great way to break in a voice recorder.
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby mropencarry » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:32 am

Hmmm....I feel a new open carry (or concealed) walk brewing. Too bad there's not a :rollingfingers: emoticon.
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby mropencarry » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:58 pm

I replied to Lance about his response;

"Dear Lance, thank you for your quick response. I completely understand your position with concealed carry on the Jet Express and where you stand in the eyes of the Port Authority. However, I do have one more question about your response. When you stated "Put-in-Bay police will meet the vessel at the dock to make sure all paperwork is in order with the carrier." were you refering to our concealed carry permits, or is there other paperwork involved in the process? "

And as of this posting he replied;

______(Fill in the blanks)________

Maybe tomorrow.
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby sabalo » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:42 pm

mropencarry wrote:Hmmm....I feel a new open carry (or concealed) walk brewing. Too bad there's not a :rollingfingers: emoticon.


Here you go !

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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby BobK » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:00 am

Concealed means concealed.
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby mropencarry » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:04 am

sabalo wrote:
mropencarry wrote:Hmmm....I feel a new open carry (or concealed) walk brewing. Too bad there's not a :rollingfingers: emoticon.


Here you go !

Image


Love it!
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby Brian D. » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:44 am

We've discussed these maritime/Coast Guard/Army Corps of Engineer laws, rules, whatever before, in relation to restaurants along the Ohio River (or Lake Erie) shoreline before. One example is a small sign on the land end of the walkway to the Hooters/Beer Sellar barge in Newport Ky. There is wording that states to the effect that anyone going aboard is subject to search, and seizure of their possessions. The sign appears to be referencing a Coast Guard regulation of some kind.

Best I've been able to figure out the USCG has no interest in doing any such thing unless some sort of state of emergency (terrorism, haz-mat incident or massive flooding for example) exists, and they have taken shall we say active jurisdiction of the river as a federal waterway. One might find themselves in trouble if found to be carrying a firearm under those circumstances. But thinking about it realistically, the USCG would probably be too busy in mitigating the emergency to worry about people coming and going from the restaurant, assuming it was even open.

Point is I don't let that goofy sign deter me from carrying--best I can tell Hooters sells more food than alcohol so by Kentucky law it is okay to do so there.
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby muxtech » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:00 am

The gentleman from JXP has no intention of getting you and your firearm to the other side. (The Captain's not OK with it today.) Your question about paperwork is therefore moot.

The actual law only requires that while on board the ammo must be "separated" from the gun. No notification of the boat operators or island police is required by law, (unless stopped for a law enforcement purpose). My definition of "separated" may be different from the PIB police. Clearly their intent is to prohibit CCW because you, "don't need a gun here." They will decide for you. Because they deal with so many drunken morons they assume we will be drunken morons with guns. They trust no one. We on the other hand shouldn't be so "paranoid" in their island paradise.

In practice, I'd be inclined to take the Miller Ferry. If I have to notify to a LEO while there and did not follow the illegal "requirements" of the JXP there could be problems. JXP should be informed that they, and the PIB PD can't make up their own rules that are intended to prohibit legal CCW.
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby BobK » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:32 pm

muxtech wrote:The gentleman from JXP has no intention of getting you and your firearm to the other side. (The Captain's not OK with it today.) Your question about paperwork is therefore moot.

The actual law only requires that while on board the ammo must be "separated" from the gun. No notification of the boat operators or island police is required by law,

Well, I am professionally familiar with TSA requirements relating to air cargo and air travel, so I thought I'd take a look at the regulations regarding maritime travel.

Now, I don't know what size boat you are talking about, but the CFR gives jusrisdiction to the Coast Guard for any motor-powered boats carrying more than 6 paying passengers on a navigable waterway. Therefore, I have to assume a ferry to PIB would qualify.

Within the sections for security requirements, here is the actual language of the regulation:

TITLE 33--NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS

CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELANDSECURITY

PART 104_MARITIME SECURITY: VESSELS--Table of Contents

Subpart B_Vessel Security Requirements

Sec. 104.265 Security measures for access control.

(a) General. The vessel owner or operator must ensure
the implementation of security measures to:
(1) Deter the unauthorized introduction of dangerous substances and
devices, including any device intended to damage or destroy persons,
vessels, facilities, or ports;
(2) Secure dangerous substances and devices that are authorized
by the owner or operator to be on board;


It is clear that firearms can be transported as long as the owner/operator secures them. However, the regulation also makes it clear that the owner or operator has the right to decide which devices they are willing to have on board.

Bottom line, if the ferry boat captain does not want guns on his ship, then they do not have to transport them.
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).

This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby mropencarry » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:35 pm

And the survey says....

"No other paperwork will be involved except for the concealed carry permits. If you let us know in advance, we can make sure everything goes smoothly. Let me know if you have any questions."

Thanks,
Lance

Capt. Lance A. Woodworth

Director of Operations

Put-in-Bay Boat Line Company, The Jet Express

3 N. Monroe Street Port Clinton, OH 43452

419-732-1JET



I thanked him for his timely response and cooperation.
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Re: Jet Express and ferry to Put-in Bay

Postby 502ci » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:55 pm

This is all great info as I always wanted to know for sure.

I'll be taking the Jet Express to Put-in-Bay in 16 days on the 20th for some partying so I will be in no condition to be carrying a firearm...it will be left behind this time.
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