"owner or manager"

[jacksnack]

Hello,

Currently, I am engaged in dialog with a business owner. She believes that a CPZ sign removes the ability from patrons to carry unless they are an "owner or manager".

How does this stand up legally? If I am employed by the establishment, does this sign NOT apply to me?

[McM]

I believe in Santa Claus, but as the late Chris Penn said in Reservoir Dogs, " But that doesn't necessarily make it (expletive) so..."

[jeffkirchner]

Hello,

Currently, I am engaged in dialog with a business owner. She believes that a CPZ sign removes the ability from patrons to carry unless they are an "owner or manager".

How does this stand up legally? If I am employed by the establishment, does this sign NOT apply to me?

Yes. If the owner or manager wants to allow certain people to carry, they're allowed to do that.

[oldmic]

My opinion - I agree with jeffkirchner. Since the violation for carrying in a CPZ is technically trespassing, it would seem the owner can exempt himself or his employees, or even vendors if she/he chooses to do so.

Just my WAG, though.

[McM]

Just to be a jerk I'd consider calling the cops if I saw one of them carrying in the store. Hey, the sign says its not allowed, they might be trying to rob the place. Either that or I'd carry and when asked to leave I would and then ask why the double standard exists.

Personally I'd never patronize a place where the owner feels that certain people have the right to defend themselves, but that they have the right to tell me I can't defend myself. What make their life worth more than mine?

[Mr. Glock]

What make their life worth more than mine?

Their ego.

[oldmic]

Personally I'd never patronize a place where the owner feels that certain people have the right to defend themselves, but that they have the right to tell me I can't defend myself.

I had the same thought.

[SeanC]

The LEO who taught my CCW course said the same thing: that if you put the sign up on your business, you can't carry there even if you're the owner. It's not true.

[djthomas]

The LEO who taught my CCW course said the same thing: that if you put the sign up on your business, you can't carry there even if you're the owner. It's not true.

The problem they'd run into is that even if they did arrest the owner for trespassing, he'd still have to press charges...against himself. Unlike Domestic Violence, trespassing is generally not one of those offenses where the police can file on your behalf despite your refusal to press charges. Well, yes, they could charge you, but the prosecutor would have a very hard time making a case so he'd drop it.

[SeanC]

See, I don't look at it that way. I think it's more like if you posted a sign that said "no taking merchandise without paying." Then you, as the owner, took some of the inventory home for personal use. The sign obviously doesn't apply. It's not so much the posting that means you can't carry on the premises as it is the property owner's decision not to let the public use the property in a specific way.

That's my take, anyway.

[OhioPaints]

It's like school zones or churches: those in control can allow whomever they want.

After all, it is their property.

[djthomas]

It's like school zones or churches: those in control can allow whomever they want.

After all, it is their property.

Which is why we don't afford the operators of day care establishments or restaurants or bars the ability to decide. It's not like it's their property either.

[fisher]

The problem they'd run into is that even if they did arrest the owner for trespassing, he'd still have to press charges...against himself. Unlike Domestic Violence, trespassing is generally not one of those offenses where the police can file on your behalf despite your refusal to press charges. Well, yes, they could charge you, but the prosecutor would have a very hard time making a case so he'd drop it.

That was my opinion. If you go into a (non-enumerated, but posted) CPZ while armed and get caught by a LEO who notices you printing, he would still need the owner to officially press charges against you for tresspasing. If the owner won't press charges against you, you are free to go. Its as simple as allowing the owner to go over to the sign an take it down and say "Nevermind".

[Jronjakoh]

I was reading an article in the East Liverpool Review (Ohio) about a bar that was raided in the area that I used to work quite a while back.

The Liquor Control Board raided the bar and had asked the East Liverpool Police to assist them.When they raided the bar they found a loaded handgun behind the bar on a shelf under the bar. One of the employees was charged with carrying a loaded weapon in a bar where beer/liquor was sold for "consumption on site".

They stated that if it would have been the owner's no one would have been charged because the owner of the establishment is allowed to have a weapon behind the bar. For some reason the employee was NOT allowed to have one according to the Police.

You would think that if the Owner gave the employee permission to have the gun the police would't be able to charge the employee.

Here's the good part.

Three customers were sitting at the bar and the Police found a bag of loose marajuana laying on the floor under the three customers who stated that it DID NOT belong to any of them,. The Police confiscated that too and charged NO ONE with possession of a controled substance.