How much crud do I need/want to carry?

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Klingon00
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Re: How much crud do I need/want to carry?

Post by Klingon00 »

jeep45238 wrote:I really don't see the attraction to these guns, given then likely chance of success via ballistics, shot placement, the time it takes to get them in action, etc. - when a literal can of POM pepper spray is more effective than any of that while still being able to legally go where you can't go with a gun, along with being able to use them MUCH earlier on in an encounter.
That's just it, every choice is usually a compromise. I think for most of us, these guns represent more compromise than we are willing or even need to make. Still, I am sympathetic to those who must deep conceal because the risks to being discovered are very high. For them, the choice is not easy.
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Re: How much crud do I need/want to carry?

Post by schmieg »

Klingon00 wrote:
jeep45238 wrote:I really don't see the attraction to these guns, given then likely chance of success via ballistics, shot placement, the time it takes to get them in action, etc. - when a literal can of POM pepper spray is more effective than any of that while still being able to legally go where you can't go with a gun, along with being able to use them MUCH earlier on in an encounter.
That's just it, every choice is usually a compromise. I think for most of us, these guns represent more compromise than we are willing or even need to make. Still, I am sympathetic to those who must deep conceal because the risks to being discovered are very high. For them, the choice is not easy.
I think it's a neat design, but I wouldn't carry it except for a deep cover backup. Even my old Astra .25 would have more power and not much harder to conceal and is probably more accurate.
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Re: How much crud do I need/want to carry?

Post by SMMAssociates »

Around the house, a P3AT does it for me. 'Course there are a pile of short and long guns "around the house" that can be brought into action as needed, if possible. I have a buddy who keeps one or two handguns in about every room....

Downside, of course, is the need to keep "current" with each one, or at least each type, but that's kinda fun.... I've been ill for quite a while, so I don't get enough range time, but at least I can keep up with each group (.38, .40, 45, and 9mm), but there are some problems there. (My P3AT is about impossible to shoot even if I want to. Safeties>? Who needs them? :D)

That is the secret, IMHO - be as proficient as possible with whatever you want to carry, and ditch the P3 when somebody wants it that I don't much like....

Outside, a medium sized 9mm, 40, or .45.... They're kinda big, but before my health got a little messed up, so am I [ :mrgreen: ].

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Stu.

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jeep45238
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Re: How much crud do I need/want to carry?

Post by jeep45238 »

Klingon00 wrote:
jeep45238 wrote:I really don't see the attraction to these guns, given then likely chance of success via ballistics, shot placement, the time it takes to get them in action, etc. - when a literal can of POM pepper spray is more effective than any of that while still being able to legally go where you can't go with a gun, along with being able to use them MUCH earlier on in an encounter.
That's just it, every choice is usually a compromise. I think for most of us, these guns represent more compromise than we are willing or even need to make. Still, I am sympathetic to those who must deep conceal because the risks to being discovered are very high. For them, the choice is not easy.
That's the whole point of this thread - objective analysis of what we carry, why we carry it, and can we actually implement it. I'd really love to see someone do a pocket carry draw with a NAA on the timer and get all shots off as fast as they can, and then repeat but keeping them in the black ring of a B8 - say, 3 yards? I'd be more than happy to do it if someone has one they want to lend for an afternoon.

On that same token, here's the NAA overplaid onto other small pistols, with the J frame being the largest. Every one of these can be pressed into action more or less as it's clearing the holster without requiring a cocking of the hammer between shots. (Seacamp 25acp, P32,21A, - the 642 is a relatively known "standard" of a size for comparison to the other guns)

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On the same token, POM is is 3.5 inches x 1inch, weighs 1.2oz, can "fire" immediately and for durations or bursts, has what is likely the same effective range as an NAA (or better), costs $15, doesn't risk employment from NPE, can be brought into action at the same threat level when you're justified punching someone in the face, is stupidly quick and easy to "fire", can be prepped in a pocket without risking a discharge from a SAO gun missing a trigger guard.....not every single problem can/should be solved with a gun.

Heck, the reason why I use a J frame most days is I run chainsaws, or am at heights in relatively lower population density areas.

Context matters, and so does objective analysis.
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M-Quigley
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Re: How much crud do I need/want to carry?

Post by M-Quigley »

SMMAssociates wrote:Around the house, a P3AT does it for me. 'Course there are a pile of short and long guns "around the house" that can be brought into action as needed, if possible. I have a buddy who keeps one or two handguns in about every room....

Downside, of course, is the need to keep "current" with each one, or at least each type, but that's kinda fun.... I've been ill for quite a while, so I don't get enough range time, but at least I can keep up with each group (.38, .40, 45, and 9mm), but there are some problems there. (My P3AT is about impossible to shoot even if I want to. Safeties>? Who needs them? :D)

That is the secret, IMHO - be as proficient as possible with whatever you want to carry, and ditch the P3 when somebody wants it that I don't much like....

Outside, a medium sized 9mm, 40, or .45.... They're kinda big, but before my health got a little messed up, so am I [ :mrgreen: ].

Regards,
I also have a buddy who keeps guns in every room in his house. I wonder if it's the same guy. :mrgreen:

As for me personally, I can't safely do that because although it's just my wife and I at this moment we do baby sit the great grandkids from time to time, so all firearms are always secured or on my person. Yes they have been told by their parents who are also gun owners not to play with or touch guns without adult supervision but being a kid myself once I don't rely just on that alone. There's something to be said for having a smaller gun on you all the time is better than just depending on having a larger handgun that you have to go get. Even if you want to go get the larger handgun having a smaller gun on you gives you more of an opportunity to successfully do that than merely being unarmed for whatever length of time it takes to get to the larger handgun, and maybe get it unsecured if it is secured.
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Re: How much crud do I need/want to carry?

Post by M-Quigley »

Klingon00 wrote:
jeep45238 wrote:I really don't see the attraction to these guns, given then likely chance of success via ballistics, shot placement, the time it takes to get them in action, etc. - when a literal can of POM pepper spray is more effective than any of that while still being able to legally go where you can't go with a gun, along with being able to use them MUCH earlier on in an encounter.
That's just it, every choice is usually a compromise. I think for most of us, these guns represent more compromise than we are willing or even need to make. Still, I am sympathetic to those who must deep conceal because the risks to being discovered are very high. For them, the choice is not easy.
I am too. I have an acquaintance who carries both a revolver and a semi auto pistol only when he goes to church because after the last church shooting that was on the news the church leadership finally decided they would approve letting a few members carry concealed. One of the church leaders however is deathly afraid of an unintended discharge, much more so than a madman coming in and intentionally shooting people. He only agreed to allow CC IF the people carrying did not carry a semi auto with a round chambered. Revolvers were okay because a local LEO who advised this guy told him it was practically impossible to have a modern DA revolver discharge from being dropped and highly unlikely to discharge in a holster from an unintended trigger pull, like what was usually depicted by Barney on TV. Of course there are DA semi autos that also have a similar level of drop safety as a revolver, like the P226 for just one example, but the LEO never mentioned that to the church leader and the church leader know nothing about handguns other than

A: what he see's on TV shows
B: what he hears on the news
C: whatever the "expert" says (his label for the LEO friend) :roll:

So what the acquaintance of mine does to stay within the rules the church set is to use the revolver if he doesn't have time or opportunity to chamber a round for his semi auto should an active shooter come in. Hopefully if a situation requires that he does have to use the revolver, either the revolver will end the situation or give him opportunity to get to cover or concealment where he can then chamber the semi auto. It might sound crazy and convoluted but it's either that for him or either

A: not carry at all, or
B: do something against what the church gave him legal permission to do.
C: not go to that church, and incur the hassle of his wife, which he was doing for awhile until a compromise was reached.
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Re: How much crud do I need/want to carry?

Post by MarkTC01 »

I usually carry a pistol, 1 extra mag, Microstream USB, knife, and small swiss army knife on keychain.
M-Quigley
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Re: How much crud do I need/want to carry?

Post by M-Quigley »

jeep45238 wrote: Heck, the reason why I use a J frame most days is I run chainsaws, or am at heights in relatively lower population density areas.

Context matters, and so does objective analysis.
Sorry but I'm confused at what you mean by the bolded part?
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Re: How much crud do I need/want to carry?

Post by Brian D. »

M-Quigley wrote:
jeep45238 wrote: Heck, the reason why I use a J frame most days is I run chainsaws, or am at heights in relatively lower population density areas.

Context matters, and so does objective analysis.
Sorry but I'm confused at what you mean by the bolded part?
Hmm. I haven't caught up with Jeep in a long time, so this is only a guess: Utilities work, up in trees or poles maybe?
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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jeep45238
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Re: How much crud do I need/want to carry?

Post by jeep45238 »

Brian D. wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:
jeep45238 wrote: Heck, the reason why I use a J frame most days is I run chainsaws, or am at heights in relatively lower population density areas.

Context matters, and so does objective analysis.
Sorry but I'm confused at what you mean by the bolded part?
Hmm. I haven't caught up with Jeep in a long time, so this is only a guess: Utilities work, up in trees or poles maybe?

Brian's correct - I'm at the end of a rope up in a tree with a chainsaw, or on the ground with one. Depending on the climbing system, pulling on the rope will either do nothing, or slightly move me higher up away from the ground. Chainsaws are quite an incredible tool, while capable of being an incredibly dangerous one as well, and the mobility requirement I need generally rules out larger platform guns.

And there's not a lot of people around me.
http://shootingfordollars.org Where Firearms and Finances meet.

You can't truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless.
-Important distinction
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Re: How much crud do I need/want to carry?

Post by stevea »

dowop wrote:Excellent Post!
In September I was riding my bike @ a State Park in the Marina area. A idiot ran me & a lady friend off the road & then stopped because I hollered at him. He called me a bunch of F Bombs. I was carrying a S&W 360PD. If he would have got out of the truck I would of had to pull the gun out. I am in my 70`s. After it happened I thought I should have pulled my iPhone & started recording him. I am also carrying Pepper Gel now. Do not really want to shoot anybody & go through all the hassle that would incur. I see the Surefire Stiletto on Amazon.
IANAL - but you need to review the laws before you make some huge mistake. You can use lethal force in response to an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. If some fit person is assaulting your 70yo person, if the fool gets out of the vehicle wielding a bat or a tire-iron, then by all means pull a gun. OTOH Dropping F-bombs and shaking a fist from a distance is NOT an imminent threat, and you pulling a gun is a crime called "brandishing", and then you are then the criminal. Threatening or intimidating w/ a gun isn't a lawful unless there is an imminent threat of serious bodily injury. Using pepper spray is a crime called "assault" if you use it before any imminent threat; but it's self-defense after an imminent threat.
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