State ranges and training

[johnwilliamson062]

Is there a 2A issue with many of the state ranges being closed for construction that seems unlikely to be completed? Some of the projects are years behind schedule. No one seems to know what is going on and no one from ODNR seems interested in giving an answer. Bearing arms is pointless without being able to practice.
Even closed, the state ranges discourage development of private ranges that would not be able to compete if the subsidized state ranges returned.
Am I just way off thinking this is an issue? No one else seems at all concerned.

[Brian D.]

Is it Occam's Razor which states "Do not attribute to malfeasance, that which can be explained as incompetence"? Something like that.

In either case it's time to compel the head of ODNR to answer these questions.

[Brian D.]

Is it Occam's Razor which states "Do not attribute to malfeasance, that which can be explained as incompetence"? Something like that.

In either case it's time to compel the head of ODNR to answer these questions.

Oops, won't edit my error, but I should have said "Hanlon's Razor". See, I screwed up, then made amends. Maybe I should be the new head of ODNR.

[johnwilliamson062]

I agree to a large extent. But, just as incompetence led to ignorance over MWAG calls,searches, etc., incompetence can lead to a very real obstruction to our second amendment rights. The ability to train is at least as important as the ability to posess. Small arms are rarely in short supply when a true need is present. Competency is rarely at adequate levels.

[Brian D.]

Being traditional facilities with so many restrictions on how you can use them, I'd not depend on the state ranges for anything more than basic marksmanship practice. (Different story if you have one of the non Class A places all to yourself.)

You want to train on things like draws, shooting on the move, other dynamic stuff, go to a school, shoot action matches, find a patch of farm ground, etc. instead.

[johnwilliamson062]

I would substitute "fundamentals" for "basic marksmanship," but I get what you are saying.
I don't think it is an effective refute of what I am saying though. To begin, most of what you describe costs significant money. So, yeah, it is great if you have access. I believe it is $5 for a day pass to state range and $25 for year. There is nowhere else on the market anywhere close to that price. Basic defensive use of a firearm does not require drawing, moving, or other dynamic training.
Also, the existence of these closed ranges stops anyone from opening private facilities in their proximity which might offer additional training options.

[TJW815]

Well, maybe if everyone contacted Mary Mertz, the Director of the ODNR. Her contact info is at the below address.

https://ohiodnr.gov/wps/portal/gov/odnr ... mary-mertz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Brian D.]

I've done that TJW. Canned response that's not really on topic with questions asked. Generated by an underling too, making it more insulting. And now under cover of Covid many of these state employees can't be found at their office. So, speaking to them in person becomes problematic if not impossible.

[johnwilliamson062]

I sent a very direct request for information to director Mertz. She kicked it down to Division of Wildlife Chief Kendra Wrecker. Normally that would rub me the wrong way, but Ms. Wrecker provided a comprehensive response which I was happy to receive and which I have pasted below. It looks as though Spring Valley shold hopefully be open within 60 days and Delaware not long after. By the end of the year at least (fingers crossed).


Dear Mr. Williamson,

Thank you for contacting ODNR Director Mertz regarding the status of the Delaware and Spring Valley Shooting Ranges. As you can probably imagine, major construction projects such as this take considerable planning and execution to deliver a first class product. These two facilities in particular were 40+ years old with various safety concerns that needed to be addressed to keep the public and our staff safe.

The Delaware Range project is on schedule to be completed in the next few months and the contractor is working hard to finish on time. This project is a $9.7 million renovation that involved moving the existing range out of the 100 year flood plain of the Delaware Reservoir, and remediating the existing site so it may return to wildlife area. The new range has grown from 6 shooting benches to 90 firing points, along with an archery course, ADA elevated archery platform, a hand trap shotgun range and Indoor Archery Training Center. We are very excited to provide the public this first class shooting opportunity right here in central Ohio.

The Spring Valley Range project will be completed within the next 60 days and portions of the facility are already open to the public. Customers can shoot with a Division of Wildlife Range Pass at the shotgun and archery ranges Thursday through Sunday. Shooters must check in at the new Outdoor Education Training Center before entering these ranges. There have been several setbacks with this project due to weather, design modifications, and material supplies but those issues have been resolved and the contractor is quickly working to finish this project. This is a $5.5 million renovation that consists of new backstops and side berms, over 60 ADA shooting benches, new state of the art Range Master Building that will enhance safety for the public and staff, new archery and hand trap shotgun range, and Outdoor Education Training Center.

These projects are made possible through funding created by the Pittman-Robertson Act and no general tax revenue is used by the Division of Wildlife on these projects. Excise taxes on firearm and ammunition sales are paid by the manufacturers and returned to the state to be used for wildlife restoration, hunter education, shooting range construction and maintenance.

We are very excited to finish out these projects and provide the public two of the best shooting facilities in the state, if not east of the Mississippi. The ODNR has made the commitment to bring these aging facilities into the modern era and renovation plans are already in place for other shooting ranges around the state. We appreciate your patience as we move in this direction and hope you enjoy shooting at these facilities soon. If you have any additional questions feel free to reach out to Eric Postell in the Division of Wildlife. Eric oversees these shooting range construction projects and will be able to answer any questions you may have. He may be reached at eric.postell@dnr.ohio.gov or by phone at 614-265-6322. Thanks for your interest in Ohio’s shooting sports. We are eager to show you the new ranges soon!

Kendra Wecker
Chief
ODNR Division of Wildlife
Phone: 614-403-7271
Email: Kendra.wecker@dnr.ohio.gov

[TJW815]

That is a surprisingly thorough response.

[johnwilliamson062]

I have a way of wording things...

Really, I was quite surprised. I was pretty much expecting a BS canned response with no details or timelines. I was thoroughly satisfied with this response.
Not entirely sure it will be completed on that deadline, but gave me some hope.

[BEAR!]

Any mention of the Tranquility Wildlife Area shooting range being re-opened? It's been closed for 4 years.

[Mr. Glock]

Slightly off-topic on the ODNR response, but firearms manufacturers remit Pittman-Robertson excise taxes. The gun and ammo buying public pays it. So, no free lunch on the upgrades.

Corporations don’t actually pay taxes, they pass them on downstream to the end consumer. They may collect and remit them, but they don’t “pay” them like you and I do.

[JustaShooter]

Corporations don’t actually pay taxes, they pass them on downstream to the end consumer. They may collect and remit them, but they don’t “pay” them like you and I do.

Exactly, not only do we pay sales, property, local, state, and federal income taxes (to name but a few) we also ultimately pay the corporations' taxes.
I wish more people understood this concept.

[Mr. Glock]

Corporations don’t actually pay taxes, they pass them on downstream to the end consumer. They may collect and remit them, but they don’t “pay” them like you and I do.

Exactly, not only do we pay sales, property, local, state, and federal income taxes (to name but a few) we also ultimately pay the corporations' taxes.
I wish more people understood this concept.

I’ve always thought that if everyone had to write a check on April 15- vs the insidious withholding mechanism- we’d have a flat tax pretty much instantly.