CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

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djbolgar
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CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by djbolgar »

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to obtain a CHL. I have gone through all the training requirements, however in February of 2003 I plead guilty to minor misdemeanor disorderly conduct in Portage County for fighting (509.03) when I was a college student in Kent, Ohio. I have had the conviction sealed, however when filling out the State of Ohio Application for License to Carry a Concealed Handgun Section III Question 8 asks: "Have you ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty to, a misdemeanor offense of violence, charge of domestic violence, or a similar offense, in this or any other state?" I am not sure if the state or sheriff would consider a minor misdemeanor disorderly conduct an "offense of violence", so I am not sure how to answer the question. I don't want to be dishonest on the application, but I also don't want to possibly be disqualified for a sealed conviction from 14 years ago either. Please let me know if anyone has any advice on how to answer this question.

Thanks,

Dave
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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Do you know if the original charge was 2917.11(A)(1) or (A)(2) or another section?

The charge under (A)(1) may be considered a crime of violence (engaging in fighting, etc.) but a charge under (A)(2) may not (making unreasonable noise).

There are other sections that may be treated differently, so you might want to spend a couple dollars talking with an attorney.
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by JustaShooter »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Do you know if the original charge was 2917.11(A)(1) or (A)(2) or another section?
Looks to me like he was charged under Kent's city ordinance 509.03 - http://www.kentohio.org/pdf/part5.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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djbolgar
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by djbolgar »

Thank you for the responses so far. That is correct that the code is 509.03. There was no sub-code on the docket before it was sealed.

Some additional information: I paid a $25 dollar fine and Minor Misdemeanor Disorderly Conduct was the original charge; so the charge was not amended. Additionally, I did get the old ticket and it does clearly indicate "fighting" in the description area the officer wrote when I got a copy of the original charge when the record was sealed.

I don't mind spending money on an attorney and it would give me peace of mind. Does anyone have a good recommendation for the Cuyahoga county area?

I have researched the heck out of this and I just can't seem to find a clear answer online. I even called the Attorney General who indicated they weren't able to tell me either way. I would imagine worst case the exclusion would be three years and since this happened 14 year ago that shouldn't be an issue. It is more of an issue of is it considered for application purposes a "crime of violence." My concern is if I mark "yes" if I don't have to, when the background check runs nothing may show (either because it's a minor misdemeanor or because it's been sealed- again I am not sure if it will show or not).

Another question for everyone, would this even show up when the Sheriff does the background check since it is sealed?

Thanks again for all your time and consideration on this.
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

djbolgar wrote:...would this even show up when the Sheriff does the background check since it is sealed?...
Sealing doesn't protect a record from a law enforcement background check.

The local court information should have made it's way to BCI. If it's there, it should be found.

Of course, improper data entry could keep it from being found (or from being marked as sealed).

There have been many stories about the data held by BCI (and reported to the FBI) is either wrong, incomplete or simply missing.

One problem of answering 'No' to Question #8 is, if you DID manage to get your CHL, what happens if the data is corrected by the time you renew?

I would suggest contacting http://www.ohiogunlawyer.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; if for nothing more than peace of mind.
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by Homer J »

This is from the most current attorney general handbook

The sheriff shall not consider the conviction, guilty plea, or adjudication of an applicant’s sealed records even if those sealed offenses would otherwise disqualify an applicant. If you have questions about sealed criminal records, consult an attorney.
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by glocksmith »

IANAL and I am less knowledgeable in legal stuff than MyWifeSaidYes is....but I would like to add that there are two types of courts - "Court of Record" and a "Court Not of Record". You might want to find out which one you had your dealings with. Don't quote me on this but a "court not of record" doesn't share information beyond it's own municipality. In other words its like "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas". A LEO once told me that if you are convicted for a relatively minor offense in a smaller city, and which is not a court of record, then it will not show up on background checks run on national databases. Again, maybe I have it wrong, and I'm sure someone will correct me, but it is worth looking in to.
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djbolgar
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by djbolgar »

Hi Everyone,

Thanks again for the responses so far. I appreciate it! Another part that was confusing me was exactly what Homer J posted about the sealed record not being considered because the application does not indicate whether or not if convictions should still be listed or not even if sealed, so I don't know to check "yes" or "no". For the other question about it staying in Kent or not, I am not sure. I have had this pop up during employment background checks (one of my reasons for finally sealing). Here is what the sealing papers indicated:


F.B.I. NUMBER: NA
B.C.I. NUMBER:NA
D.O.B: ******
SSN: ******
DATE OF ARREST: 2/14/03
ARREST NUMBER: *****
ARRESTING AGENCY: Kent Police Department
ORIGINAL CHARGE: Disorderly Conduct M-M
AMENDED CHARGE: Not Amended
DISPOSITION: GUILTY

I do find it interesting there was no FBI or BCI number. Would anyone recommend trying to contact the Sheriff's Department directly? I am in Cuyahoga County so it appears I have a few options of which department to go to when I finally do get the application in (I was thinking Medina).

Many thanks for your help so far.
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by glocksmith »

djbolgar wrote:Would anyone recommend trying to contact the Sheriff's Department directly?
I'm not sure I totally understand. Have you already applied? If you haven't, NO I wouldn't call the Sheriff's office and discuss it. And BTW it wouldn't matter which county you dealt with...as they're all connected and sharing information anyway. First things first...and you need to determine beforehand if this is going to rear its ugly head when you apply and undergo the background check. If your MM is something that will not come up during the standard CHL background check...but you tell them about it anyway...well, then they'd now know about it and there's no turning back.

Never volunteer information unless you absolutely have to.
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djbolgar
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by djbolgar »

Hello,

I have not applied yet for the CHL. Just to reiterate the point, I am not concerned with with revealing a minor misdemeanor that is sealed, I just need to know what to check for question 8 if it is considered an "offense of violence". I cannot contemplate if the Sheriff saw the lowest level infraction from 14 years ago that is not connected to domestic violence that is going to preclude me from a CHL. There are folks that have assault M1 charges and the waiting period is only 3 years. My thinking is to be transparent because I don't want to appear to have falsified an application.
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by JustaShooter »

My understanding agrees with yours, since the record is sealed it can't be held against you for the purposes of approving the application for the CHL. I also wish the instructions for the application were more clear - it seems like the instructions should include question #8, but since they don't, it's not clear to me how you should answer it.

Here's what I'd do (and I would not normally suggest this, but): I'd call the CHL clerk for the county you plan to apply in and explain the situation, and ask how they want you to fill out the application. Since they are ultimately the person who will decide if the application is OK and background check processed and cleared, they are the person who can best guide you.
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by djbolgar »

Hi Everyone,

I am going to consult an attorney later this week. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by docachna »

djbolgar wrote:

I am going to consult an attorney later this week. I'll let you know how it goes.
Good choice. Be sure to report back to the forum on the outcome (once you have successfully applied and have your OLTCACH in your hot little hand !!). Until then - or until your attorney has recommended against it - mum's the word.
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by djthomas »

djbolgar wrote:I do find it interesting there was no FBI or BCI number.
That's not surprising. Contrary to popular belief, BCI does not maintain every criminal record produced in the state. Courts are only required to forward certain convictions to them and I don't believe MM DC is one of them. Likewise with the FBI since they get their records from BCI. Also a MM is ordinarily a ticket-only offense so they won't even have fingerprints to send.

That's why they ask you to list your address history back to age 18 - so they can canvas the courts in the area where you (presumably) spent a lot of time. That wouldn't be necessary if BCI maintained every criminal record, but they don't.
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Re: CHL - Application - Disorderly Conduct MM Question

Post by JustaShooter »

djthomas wrote:That's why they ask you to list your address history back to age 18 - so they can canvas the courts in the area where you (presumably) spent a lot of time. That wouldn't be necessary if BCI maintained every criminal record, but they don't.
You know the application no longer asks for that information, right? ;-)
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