I look at it just a bit differently - the 2A has been incorporated to the states for quite some time, and yet, there are clear infringements on the right to keep and bear arms at the state level in those states you mention, and others. To me, although not discussed in the document where it lays out the constitutional basis for the Act, this is a reasonable use of the power of the Federal government to enforce that right.djthomas wrote:Prior to about 1934 I would have agreed with you. But now, IMO, there are no states rights left to be chipped away with respect to firearms that have entered interstate commerce. Legislative and judicially that ship has sailed. Now it's really about equal rights. On this particular topic they already decided over 10 years ago that that some retired cop or corrections officer from New Jersey who would have gladly shipped you up the river if you dared carry a single round of ammo in his state must be allowed to carry in ours, disregarding our rules about drinking in bars if it suits his fancy.docachna wrote:I've been really torn about interstate reciprocity. I know the arguments both ways, but it's along the line of the issues about property owners' rights vs. gun owners' rights --- I'm still just really hesitant to start chipping away at states' rights with THIS particular vehicle.
As long as LEOSA remains on the books, private citizens must be afforded the same or substantially similar accommodations. There's no way in heck LEOSA is ever getting repealed so I say there's nothing morally or constitutionally superior about dying disarmed in New York* when you're sent for a work trip merely because you aren't someone who does or did hold a privileged vocation.
* Or any other place along the eastern seaboard if your travel includes flying through NY or NJ, or the risk of being diverted there, even if you could otherwise carry at your destination.
OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators
- JustaShooter
- OFCC Coordinator
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
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Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
NRA Life Member
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Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
- djthomas
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
While true that the second amendment has been incorporated to the states since 2010, here we are seven years later and we still don't have any settled jurisprudence on whether or not that includes the right to carry a concealed handgun outside the home. The second and ninth circuits have held that "may issue" is perfectly legal. The seventh held that Illinois's outright concealed carry ban was unconstitutional, but that case never made it to SCOTUS because Illinois passed a shall issue concealed carry law at the eleventh hour. Doing so rendered that challenge moot so as of right now there isn't a circuit split and SCOTUS has not shown any inclination to litigate the matter.JustaShooter wrote:I look at it just a bit differently - the 2A has been incorporated to the states for quite some time, and yet, there are clear infringements on the right to keep and bear arms at the state level in those states you mention, and others. To me, although not discussed in the document where it lays out the constitutional basis for the Act, this is a reasonable use of the power of the Federal government to enforce that right.
In the absence of clear federal preemption, the states are free to pass whatever laws they want. Furthermore because of the way our judicial system works, those enactments are presumed to be constitutional until determined otherwise.
Don't get me wrong; we're all on the same side but the reality right now is there is no federal constitutionally guaranteed right to carry a concealed handgun outside the home. That doesn't mean that it's prohibited either. It just means that it's left to the states regulate and/or Congress address through its constitutional authority. As proposed this act really wouldn't be the feds enforcing the second amendment as much as it would be them enforcing Article 1, Section 8 (interstate commerce clause).
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
Can you be very specific on how interstate reciprocity offends the Tenth Amendment? I'm interested to hear your argument.docachna wrote:I'm still just really hesitant to start chipping away at states' rights . . .
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
It's my understand that it's the interstate commerce clause that is the legal basis for requiring NICS checks for all FFL firearms sales. The assumption being that at one time all firearms passed through interstate commerce. Someone please correct me if my understanding is mistaken.
The interstate commerce clause, in my opinion, is the most abused clause in the constitution. So if it can be used to our detriment we might as well use it to our advantage when we can.
The interstate commerce clause, in my opinion, is the most abused clause in the constitution. So if it can be used to our detriment we might as well use it to our advantage when we can.
I believe in American exceptianalism
Fear the government that fears your guns
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Fear the government that fears your guns
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- djthomas
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
Precisely. As I said, federally regulating just about anything related to firearms via the ICC is a ship long sailed. The other side is not deterred by constitutional idealism and never will be. But beyond that we're talking about using settled law not advancing some novel concept.WestonDon wrote:The interstate commerce clause, in my opinion, is the most abused clause in the constitution. So if it can be used to our detriment we might as well use it to our advantage when we can.
- MyWifeSaidYes
- OFCC Coordinator
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
Fixed that for you.WestonDon wrote:...
The interstate commerce clausein my opinionIS THE most abused clause in the constitution.
...
MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
Watching this one.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny
Mark
NRA Training Counselor-Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Reloading, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home, Home Firearms Safety, Chief RSO. NRA Endowment Life member.
Mark
NRA Training Counselor-Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Reloading, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home, Home Firearms Safety, Chief RSO. NRA Endowment Life member.
- Chuck
- OFCC Director
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
Dear Congressman Tiberi,
My name is Chuck LaRosa and I live in Pataskala Ohio. I am writing you today to urge you to become a co-sponsor of H.R. 38, what is commonly referred to as national reciprocity for handgun licensees.
The is a step for freedom of law abiding citizens to travel about our great nation without fear of losing their right to self defense because of crossing a state line.
As a member of Ohioans For Concealed Carry, a non profit grass roots organization that was instrumental in bringing concealed carry to our great state, we have created a position paper that I can not attach using this format to assist you in making your decision.
Please find it at: http://noicefamilyfirearms.com/resource ... -18-17.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Respectfully,
Chuck LaRosa
Director
Ohioans For Concealed Carry
*phone number*
My name is Chuck LaRosa and I live in Pataskala Ohio. I am writing you today to urge you to become a co-sponsor of H.R. 38, what is commonly referred to as national reciprocity for handgun licensees.
The is a step for freedom of law abiding citizens to travel about our great nation without fear of losing their right to self defense because of crossing a state line.
As a member of Ohioans For Concealed Carry, a non profit grass roots organization that was instrumental in bringing concealed carry to our great state, we have created a position paper that I can not attach using this format to assist you in making your decision.
Please find it at: http://noicefamilyfirearms.com/resource ... -18-17.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Respectfully,
Chuck LaRosa
Director
Ohioans For Concealed Carry
*phone number*
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
- Morne
- OFCC Coordinator
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
For anybody that thinks contacting their congressman is futile...listen up.Chuck wrote:Dear Congressman Tiberi...
We're going to Washington D.C. OFCC is going to push this bill in person. Dr. Detroit and I are the advocacy team. We're going to go to EVERY Ohio congresscritter who is not currently a co-sponsor of this bill and ask them to become one.
You know who was one of the last offices was to respond to our request for a meeting? Tiberi. Guess what happened TODAY, after a constituent named Chuck contacted Tiberi's office? They responded and now we're coordinating schedules.
BAM, progress.
Call. E-mail. Write. Telegraph. Pony Express. Send smoke signals if you have to. But LET THEM KNOW you want this.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.
Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.
Remember, only you can prevent big government!
Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.
Remember, only you can prevent big government!
- sd790
- OFCC Patron Member
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
Thank you for your advocacy. I contacted Tiberi at least a week ago and got no response, which did surprise me. I will follow up today.
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- Morne
- OFCC Coordinator
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
Just because they didn't get back to you doesn't mean your message wasn't heard. You were one of many banging on the door that Tiberi's office just answered.sd790 wrote:Thank you for your advocacy. I contacted Tiberi at least a week ago and got no response, which did surprise me. I will follow up today.
THANK YOU for contacting Tiberi. The more people who do that the easier the lift for our rights.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.
Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.
Remember, only you can prevent big government!
Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.
Remember, only you can prevent big government!
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- OFCC Patron Member
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Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
My congressman (Bob Latta) is already a cosponsor of this bill. I contacted him thanking him for his support. It doesn't hurt to let 'em know we've got their back when they support us because I am sure they all have constituents that are not too happy about this.Morne wrote:For anybody that thinks contacting their congressman is futile...listen up.Chuck wrote:Dear Congressman Tiberi...
We're going to Washington D.C. OFCC is going to push this bill in person. Dr. Detroit and I are the advocacy team. We're going to go to EVERY Ohio congresscritter who is not currently a co-sponsor of this bill and ask them to become one.
You know who was one of the last offices was to respond to our request for a meeting? Tiberi. Guess what happened TODAY, after a constituent named Chuck contacted Tiberi's office? They responded and now we're coordinating schedules.
BAM, progress.
Call. E-mail. Write. Telegraph. Pony Express. Send smoke signals if you have to. But LET THEM KNOW you want this.
Thanks to you guys for your hard work. A donation is on the way to OFCC to help defray the cost of this campaign.
I believe in American exceptianalism
Fear the government that fears your guns
NRA endowment life member
Fear the government that fears your guns
NRA endowment life member
- sd790
- OFCC Patron Member
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:40 pm
- Location: Delaware
Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
I modified Chuck's email to my own style/words. Chuck's was fine, but I avoid sending the same exact message that anyone else does.
Representative Tiberi,
I am writing you today to once again urge you to become a co-sponsor of H.R. 38, what is commonly referred to as national reciprocity for handgun licensees.
The is a positive improvement for the freedom of law abiding citizens to travel about our nation without fear of becoming a criminal for merely crossing a state line.
I am a member of the NRA and Ohioans For Concealed Carry, a non profit grass roots organization that was instrumental in bringing concealed carry to our great state. They have created a position paper to assist you in making your decision.
Please find it at: http://noicefamilyfirearms.com/resource ... -18-17.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Respectfully,
sd790
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
- Morne
- OFCC Coordinator
- Posts: 10631
- Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 pm
- Location: Wayne County
Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
Hear, hear!!! Politicians receiving an "attaboy" are reassured that they are doing the right thing. You are spot on, sir!WestonDon wrote:My congressman (Bob Latta) is already a cosponsor of this bill. I contacted him thanking him for his support. It doesn't hurt to let 'em know we've got their back when they support us because I am sure they all have constituents that are not too happy about this.
Thank you for your kind generosity!Thanks to you guys for your hard work. A donation is on the way to OFCC to help defray the cost of this campaign.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.
Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.
Remember, only you can prevent big government!
Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.
Remember, only you can prevent big government!
-
- OFCC Coordinator
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- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:18 pm
Re: OFCC Position on Interstate Reciprocity
Thanks, everyone, for your support. Morne and I put on some serious mileage walking the halls of Congress yesterday. We had some great meetings and the position paper was well-received (download link for that paper appears in the first post in this thread). OFCC is now way out front on this issue. Thanks to everyone here who has expressed their support!
Dr. D.
Dr. D.