Goddard’s Law

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Javelin Man
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by Javelin Man »

steves 50de wrote:
Werz wrote:
WestonDon wrote:Actually there is other criteria. They are spelled out pretty clearly in the AG's handbook for concealed carry licensees. Most who read this are intimately familiar with them so I won't go into detail. It never hurts to refresh one's familiarity with that publication.

On another rather nitpicky point, it doesn't really matter if you are in fear for your life. It matters if a judge and/or jury thinks a reasonable person would be in fear for their life.
And likewise, in this scenario, the question for a judge or jury will be: "Was he in genuine fear of injury, or was he an angry guy who didn't like the dog?"
Think I will take a bit before shooting, a bit mark proves self defense. :shock: :arrow: :?
At which time the dog's owner will ask why you didn't turn the gun around and use the other end of the gun on the dog. You can simply ask the owner why the dog didn't turn around and attack with his other end! :wink:
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by Qfac »

Are you sure the dog was tri g to attack you and your dog tried to help? So you would be protecting yourself first....
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Re: Goddard’s Law

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Why? Nothing in the law says you must be in fear of your life or actually harmed by the dog. The bar set in O.R.C. 955.28 is VERY low.
steves 50de wrote:Think I will take a bit before shooting, a bit mark proves self defense. :shock: :arrow: :?
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by Werz »

WY_Not wrote:
steves 50de wrote:Think I will take a bit before shooting, a bit mark proves self defense. :shock: :arrow: :?
Why? Nothing in the law says you must be in fear of your life or actually harmed by the dog. The bar set in O.R.C. 955.28 is VERY low.
Compare and contrast:

"[A} dog that is chasing or approaching in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack, that attempts to bite or otherwise endanger, or that kills or injures a person or a dog that chases, threatens, harasses, injures, or kills livestock, poultry, other domestic animal, or other animal, that is the property of another person, except a cat or another dog, can be killed at the time of that chasing, threatening, harassment, approaching, attempt, killing, or injury." R.C. 955.28(A).

"No person shall knowingly torture, torment, needlessly mutilate or maim, cruelly beat, poison, needlessly kill, or commit an act of cruelty against a companion animal.
"No person shall knowingly cause serious physical harm to a companion animal." R.C. 959.131(B),(C).

There are plenty of tough guys who think they can shoot any dog that barks at them. There are plenty of jurors willing to tell them they are wrong. And remember: R.C. 955.28(A) is an affirmative defense which the accused must prove by a preponderance of the evidence.
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WY_Not
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Re: Goddard’s Law

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And unless the new law changes or takes precedence over 955.28...
O.R.C. 955.28 wrote:If, in attempting to kill such a dog, a person wounds it, the person is not liable to prosecution under the penal laws that punish cruelty to animals.
Not trying to be a tough guy. Just someone who has had to deal with other people's "loving pets" turned predators. In no way, shape, or form even remotely enjoy having to dispatch a dog but when it is threatening my family or my livestock then I have ZERO compassion. I've had to deal with dogs chasing cattle and also with a pack of strays that went feral. NOT fun. NOT pleasant.
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by Werz »

WY_Not wrote:And unless the new law changes or takes precedence over 955.28...
O.R.C. 955.28 wrote:If, in attempting to kill such a dog, a person wounds it, the person is not liable to prosecution under the penal laws that punish cruelty to animals.
Law must be read in pari materia. The sentence you quoted just expands on the sentence I wrote earlier. You still have to establish by a preponderance of evidence that you would have been justified in killing the dog. What that sentence means is, if you were justified in the killing the dog, but only wounded it, you cannot be convicted on the basis of being intentionally cruel just because you are a bad shot.
WY_Not wrote:Not trying to be a tough guy. Just someone who has had to deal with other people's "loving pets" turned predators. In no way, shape, or form even remotely enjoy having to dispatch a dog but when it is threatening my family or my livestock then I have ZERO compassion. I've had to deal with dogs chasing cattle and also with a pack of strays that went feral. NOT fun. NOT pleasant.
We are all informed by our experiences. I don't see many dogs like that. I do see a lot of humans like that. And I've seen examples of both species that needed to be shot. Just more of the latter.
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by steves 50de »

Werz wrote:
WY_Not wrote:
steves 50de wrote:Think I will take a bit before shooting, a bit mark proves self defense. :shock: :arrow: :?
Why? Nothing in the law says you must be in fear of your life or actually harmed by the dog. The bar set in O.R.C. 955.28 is VERY low.
Compare and contrast:

"[A} dog that is chasing or approaching in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack, that attempts to bite or otherwise endanger, or that kills or injures a person or a dog that chases, threatens, harasses, injures, or kills livestock, poultry, other domestic animal, or other animal, that is the property of another person, except a cat or another dog, can be killed at the time of that chasing, threatening, harassment, approaching, attempt, killing, or injury." R.C. 955.28(A).

"No person shall knowingly torture, torment, needlessly mutilate or maim, cruelly beat, poison, needlessly kill, or commit an act of cruelty against a companion animal.
"No person shall knowingly cause serious physical harm to a companion animal." R.C. 959.131(B),(C).

There are plenty of tough guys who think they can shoot any dog that barks at them. There are plenty of jurors willing to tell them they are wrong. And remember: R.C. 955.28(A) is an affirmative defense which the accused must prove by a preponderance of the evidence.
Like I said I'll take the bit before shooting. 140 pound dog or a 20 pound dog use common sense. Shooting the dog is the LAST resort.
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by DontTreadOnMe »

steves 50de wrote:Like I said I'll take the bit before shooting. 140 pound dog or a 20 pound dog use common sense. Shooting the dog is the LAST resort.
It's up to you, but waiting until you're bitten is IMO a terrible idea. It's like waiting until you're actually stabbed before shooting a knife attacker.

Odds are a single bite likely won't be traumatic, but some dogs have bitten into a man's femoral artery with a single bite
Another man who was bitten by a police dog successfully sued the city that employed the officers after he had been stopped for a traffic violation. He ran away from his car, and officers pursued him with a police dog which had been trained to bite a suspect and hold him until officers commanded otherwise. The man's upper leg was bitten, and his femoral artery was severed.
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/a ... fwqce.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The dog might be rabid. Even if it's not, other types of infections from dog bites aren't rare.


Also if the dog's already biting you that means it's right next to you, you're now stressed (on account of being bitten) and are going to try to put a shot into the dog without hitting yourself. You wouldn't be the first person to accidentally shoot himself while trying to shoot an attacking dog.
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Re: Goddard’s Law

Post by Greenleaf4902 »

WestonDon wrote:Actually there is other criteria. They are spelled out pretty clearly in the AG's handbook for concealed carry licensees. Most who read this are intimately familiar with them so I won't go into detail. It never hurts to refresh one's familiarity with that publication.

On another rather nitpicky point, it doesn't really matter if you are in fear for your life. It matters if a judge and/or jury thinks a reasonable person would be in fear for their life.
This is the heated topic of discussion I have on facebook, frequently. Even with folks from OHIO. There is an outline in terms of when one may employ use of deadly force. Folks just don't believe it. Obviously, in some states, you simply hang the barrel out the window or door and start shooting. In ohio, that isn't going to fly.
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