***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

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***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby charben » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:18 pm

With the recent law change allowing concealed carry in a Class D establishment, there has been a flurry of activity on these boards relative to the posting status of your favorite establishments that have a Class D license. Based on OFCC's years of experience and the experience of MANY who have been posting here for, again, literally YEARS, I feel it is time to reiterate some critical advice:

If you are wondering whether your favorite restaurant or pub is posted..

DO NOT CALL AHEAD!

Let me repeat that a little less subtly...

DO NOT FREAKIN CALL THEM AHEAD!

Seriously, don't do it. Here's why...

1) You are reminding someone that they CAN post who might not have ever considered it. That screws things up for the rest of us.
2) You are essentially extending the length of time that this law change stays in the front of the minds of restaurant owners/managers. The sooner this becomes a non-issue--like it has everywhere else--the better. But if people are constantly calling...then it will take longer.
3) Why call in the first place? Do you call EVERY BUSINESS that you intend to visit? The new law treats the posting of a Class D like the posting of any other business--and you should, too. Just go. If you see a sign, don't go in...or leave a NGNM card. This is very important:

IF YOU DON'T SEE A SIGN, DON'T ASK TO "BE SURE"!

Again, a little less subtly...

IF THERE IS NO CONSPICUOUS SIGN, SHUT UP AND ENJOY YOUR MEAL!

The practice of calling ahead and asking if a business--any business--is posted has very little upside but a HUGE potential downside for the rest of us.

Oh...and since I was reminded of this by Cruiser, THIS rule also applies:

DO NOT THANK A BUSINESS FOR NOT POSTING!

Our "thanks" is in the form of our present and continued business. If they post, that business goes away.

Seriously, I am so tempted to ban the next person I see doing something like this! :lol:
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby JediSkipdogg » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:23 pm

charben wrote:Seriously, I am so tempted to ban the next person I see doing something like this! :lol:


I second that motion!!!!

Seriously, very informative post and one that should be followed by all concealed carriers.
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby Lysander » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:32 pm

charben wrote:Seriously, I am so tempted to ban the next person I see doing something like this! :lol:



Just in case someone missed it.

It is so incredibly frustrating when people do this. Even in States where posting doesn't carry the weight of law it is still obnoxious, and creates an issue out of a non-issue. In fact, I've now included a link to this thread in my signature.

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Required reading for newbies: DO NOT CALL AHEAD. EVER.

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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby steves 50de » Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:50 pm

Chris is right stay quiet and it will blow over.The less it is brought up the better.
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby muxtech » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:05 pm

I remember when I first started to carry. It's human nature to want to know that we are both legal and welcome. Focus on the former and disregard the latter. If you don't see a sign, you have met the requirement for being legal - period. If the sign is back behind the customer service desk, (or somewhere,) it's not our job to keep looking until we find it. It is their responsibility to post in a conspicuous location if they expect us to see it. If not - see no evil, hear no evil. You have to knowingly violate the posting to be in real legal jeopardy. To clarify, a poorly posted location is still valid. Even a non-posted location with a verbal denial to carry is a valid prohibition. But only once you know about it or were told. If you don't see / aren't told, you aren't knowingly violating anything. Get the picture?

Some businesses want it both ways. They don't want an ugly picture of a gun to be the first thing every customer sees. But they also want to be able to tell anti-gun customers who ask if they ban guns, "Yes", to appease them. So they may post in an obscure location but have an official policy of "no guns". Assuming my firearm is concealed, it becomes a game of don't ask, don't tell.

Folks new to carrying feel this vagueness puts them in legal jeopardy - it doesn't. If someone notices you are carrying, they can ask you to leave. You must then do so without delay or debate. It's that simple.

Non-enumerated CPZ's are one example where ignorance IS an excuse. It's a game we all have to learn to play, not because we cheat, but because businesses do, in order to play both sides.
Last edited by muxtech on Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby Nairo » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:15 pm

Thank you, I'm new and found it very silly when I noticed people were calling ahead ....
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby ziggy » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:13 pm

charben and muxtech have summed it up pretty nicely here.

OLTCACH holders are not required to seek out any signing. If the signs are hidden away and you didn't see it, and no one told you, you would not be violating any law. If you are "found out" in a CPZ, you merely have to leave without incident.

Provided you really didn't see any signs of course... or didn't read on an internet forum about new CPZs...
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby wobblygoblin » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:21 pm

charben wrote:With the recent law change allowing concealed carry in a Class D establishment, there has been a flurry of activity on these boards relative to the posting status of your favorite establishments that have a Class D license. Based on OFCC's years of experience and the experience of MANY who have been posting here for, again, literally YEARS, I feel it is time to reiterate some critical advice:

If you are wondering whether your favorite restaurant or pub is posted..

DO NOT CALL AHEAD!

Let me repeat that a little less subtly...

DO NOT FREAKIN CALL THEM AHEAD!

Seriously, don't do it. Here's why...

1) You are reminding someone that they CAN post who might not have ever considered it. That screws things up for the rest of us.
2) You are essentially extending the length of time that this law change stays in the front of the minds of restaurant owners/managers. The sooner this becomes a non-issue--like it has everywhere else--the better. But if people are constantly calling...then it will take longer.
3) Why call in the first place? Do you call EVERY BUSINESS that you intend to visit? The new law treats the posting of a Class D like the posting of any other business--and you should, too. Just go. If you see a sign, don't go in...or leave a NGNM card. This is very important:

IF YOU DON'T SEE A SIGN, DON'T ASK TO "BE SURE"!

Again, a little less subtly...

IF THERE IS NO CONSPICUOUS SIGN, SHUT UP AND ENJOY YOUR MEAL!

The practice of calling ahead and asking if a business--any business--is posted has very little upside but a HUGE potential downside for the rest of us.

Seriously, I am so tempted to ban the next person I see doing something like this! :lol:


So...what you are saying is, if I understand it right, is you would like people not to call ahead? :D :wink:
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby wobblygoblin » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:25 pm

Seriously, though, I think this is a very important point Charben brought up. The less these restaurants think about the new law the better. I went to my first class D restaurant today and quickly checked the door and walla no post so I went in. No one knew, no one could tell and I had a good lunch with my wife. There is a difference between "knowingly" and playing detective.
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby ohazco » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:32 pm

Good post! Unfortunately.. I'm betting that in general, the type who come on and make a first post about how they called ahead or asked for the manager to be sure they could carry... also aren't the type to read the sticky'ed topics at the top of the page. Still, if we can stop just some of them.
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby Cruiser » Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:46 pm

Oh! And DO NOT THANK THEM FOR NOT POSTING! 8)
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby charben » Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:50 pm

Cruiser wrote:Oh! And DO NOT THANK THEM FOR NOT POSTING! 8)


Right. Our "thank you" is in the form of our business.

I think I'll add that to the original post! Thanks, Cruiser!
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby Chuck » Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:58 pm

I wrote a response to this, and then deleted it.
Let me just say I'm LMAO
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby sodbuster95 » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:13 pm

Right, we'll stay here until you get back.

//Monty Python reference...trust me, it's funny if you like Monty Python. 8)
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Re: ***DON'T CALL AHEAD!*** (Required reading)

Postby dcludwig » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:45 pm

+1 (and pass it along to those you know who carry and don't frequent this forum!)
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