Rep. James Aslanides, proposed bill........

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Petrovich
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Re: Rep. James Aslanides, proposed bill........

Post by Petrovich »

Geezah wrote:
Petrofergov wrote:
Geezah wrote: All depends.......

But the 2nd does not mention citizens, rather the people, and as I am allowed by law to reside in the US permanetly, would I not be considered one of those people?
After all the constitution was created after escaping the yoke of the British, so the majority of people would have been British descendents.
After all if this right was only granted to it's citizens then why is it I can go down to my local fun store and purchase a firearm?
First off, let me tell you I personally have NO PROBLEM with your ability to buy a firearm legally. If you pass the background check that's all that's necessary. If you CAN buy a firearm, why did you start this conversaion in the FIRST place???
Did you read my intial post?
Prohibit noncitizens from getting concealed-carry licenses.
While I can purchase firearms legally, Rep. James Aslanides is looking to restrict the rights of resisdent aliens to carry firearms concealed(if I am reading this correctly) legally, that is my beef. While I am getting the impression for you it's "I'm alright Jack", for me I view the law abiding firearm owning community as a collective, this is where we are strong.
Why exactly did you pursue your CHL?
Petrofergov wrote: When the United States declared itself a soveriegn nation its PEOPLE became CITIZENS. What's this nonsense about british descendents?
You're the one saying that the 2nd only applies to citizens, not me, the 2nd talks about the right to bear arms being an individual right, nothing about citizens.
Petrofergov wrote:
Geezah wrote:Ok, I'll go over this again, for the first 5yrs of my existence in the US,I should be rendered defenceless, my only defence is to call the Police, because I do not have an individual right to bear arms?
You just said you could go to the "funstore" and purchase a firearm! This conversation is becoming a ramble. I cannot hope to follow your loose associations and rambling logic. When you can make up your mind what it is you can, and cannot do we can resume if you wish.
It is only a ramble because you choose to view it as a ramble.

Yes, I can go to the funstore and purchase a firearm(legally) but Rep. James Aslanides wants to restrict me when it comes down to my CCW.

Is your family that much more important than mine?
Spare me the guilt trip.

I'll say again, for possible penetration; however slight.

I don't have a single problem with you getting your CHL. If you qualify...MORE POWER TO YOU.

You are the one who asked why noncitizens were treated differently. Remind me not to try to answer your questions in the future.
Geezah wrote:

Did you read my intial post?
Was that the one where you referred to the posters on this thread as oozing ignorance? Yeah, I read it.

Yer the one who set the tone mister; not me.
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Re: Rep. James Aslanides, proposed bill........

Post by Geezah »

Petrofergov wrote:
Spare me the guilt trip.
No guilt trip, just trying to highlight that there are those in this country that are here legally that want to be able to protect themselves and family just the same as you.
Petrofergov wrote: I'll say again, for possible penetration; however slight.

I don't have a single problem with you getting your CHL. If you qualify...MORE POWER TO YOU.
Well it was you that suggested we all become citizens in order to reap the benefits of being a citizen, that's the way I interpreted it anyway.
It looks like you are now convinced that if resident aliens want to pursue their CHL you would support it.
Petrofergov wrote: You are the one who asked why noncitizens were treated differently.
No I asked "How will this affect me?" I also asked "Would you suggest that a person that wants to take care of himself and family now rely on LEOs 100%?". I care about those that are resident aliens that can purchase firearms legally, and that they should also be able to carry legally, if they choose.
Petrofergov wrote: Remind me not to try to answer your questions in the future.
Noted, I have put a reminder under my pic, but I will let you have the last word :wink:

I'm not a bad person, I've just come from a country that brings you up to believe in all the anti-gun crap, that guns kill people, and you should rely on the Police 24/7 to look after you.
I was completely anti-gun until nearly 4yrs ago when I started doing my own research, maybe that's why I'm so intense when it comes to gun owners rights.
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Post by Brian_Horton »

Geezah,

Hopefully we can all email Rep. Aslanides and convince him to remove this from his bill. I agree that all people have a right to self defense. I think that if you can buy and possess a firearm then you should be allowed to carry it for protection. I think it is great that currently a resident alien can get a CHL. I can only think of one way that this could possibly hurt us and that is with reciprocity with other states. I don't think it has been an issue yet though.

The rights enumerated in our Constitution are God given rights that belong to all people before and outside of government. The US Constitution recognizes those rights as God given (not government granted) and protects them from government usurpation, infringement, or regulation. Rights exist for all people not just citizens of this country. Citizens and noncitizens all have the right to free speech, the right to on property, and the right to a fair trial. We cannot deny a noncitizen a fair trial just because they are not a citizen. We cannot take a noncitiznes property just because thety are a noncitizen. Privileges are another matter as has been stated. Noncitizens do not qualify for welfare or other privileges that should only be available to citizens.

I think that some people's arguements that this would help protect us from terrorists are ill founded. Their arguements sound just like Toby Hoover's back when we were trying to pass HB12. She was saying that now a gang member could get a CHL and legally carry and it would be easier for them to murder people. Our counter arguement was that a gang member was going to carry even if it was against the law. If he was not scared of being convicted of murder then he certainly would not be scared of CCWing illegally. It is the same with resident aliens and terrorists. If terrorists decide to use a gun in an attack then having or not having a CHL will not deter them. A terrorist is going to carry that gun anyways and not allowing resident aliens to get CHL's only prohibits the law abiding resident aliens from carrying.

Liberalizing who can carry makes us all safer and has no effect on bad guys carrying. Liberalizing CCW laws only provide more benefits and protections to the good guys. If I was to some day witness or come under a terrorist attack, it would be nice if the guy standing next to me had a CHL and carry gun to help me fight back. It would really suck if he didn't just because he was a resident alien and the law would not allow it.
Last edited by Brian_Horton on Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Geezah
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Post by Geezah »

Brian_Horton, cool post, thank you.

Just to correct you on one thing, haspelbein and myself, we are Resident Aliens, if we were Non-Resident Aliens, we would just be visiting and if that were the case would not be able to purchase firearms legally :wink:
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Post by Brian_Horton »

Oops! :lol:

I had a little brain fart. I know you guys are resident aliens. My mind had been thinking reciprocity and non resident permits before I wrote this post. I guess the "non" part slipped in front of the "resident" part by accident. I'll edit my post.
When the goin' gets tough, the tough go cyclic.

Happiness is a crew served weapon.
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Post by haspelbein »

Brian_Horton wrote: [...] Noncitizens do not qualify for welfare or other privileges that should only be available to citizens. [...]
I agree with all points that you made. However, Resident Aliens are even deeper engrained into this society. We pay taxes, we need to register with the Selective Service and can therefore be drafted into the US armed forces, and I would under my current status also qualify for welfare.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud, "General Introduction to Psychoanalysis"
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Re: Rep. James Aslanides, proposed bill........

Post by Petrovich »

Geezah wrote: Noted, I have put a reminder under my pic, but I will let you have the last word :wink: .
I think I will have the last word. Yeah, that's me.....master of one upmanship.

I reread my posts and nowhere did I say I didn't support you getting your CHL. I didn't imply it either.

Get your CHL with my blessing. When you answer those questions on the form, try to be a little more straightforward than you were with me.

I'll also encourage you to do what you can to become a citizen. If living in this country means as much as you say it does; I am sure you'll consider the process no more than a minor inconvenience.
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Post by Geezah »

haspelbein wrote:
Brian_Horton wrote: [...] Noncitizens do not qualify for welfare or other privileges that should only be available to citizens. [...]
I agree with all points that you made. However, Resident Aliens are even deeper engrained into this society. We pay taxes, we need to register with the Selective Service and can therefore be drafted into the US armed forces, and I would under my current status also qualify for welfare.
I forgot about that, I signed off on paperwork at the Embassy that if called upon I would join the services and fight for the US of A.
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Re: Rep. James Aslanides, proposed bill........

Post by Geezah »

Petrofergov wrote:
Geezah wrote: Noted, I have put a reminder under my pic, but I will let you have the last word :wink: .
I think I will have the last word. Yeah, that's me.....master of one upmanship.
It's a strange World we live in afterall.
Petrofergov wrote: I reread my posts and nowhere did I say I didn't support you getting your CHL. I didn't imply it either.
You are correct sir, but you did say this.....
Petrofergov wrote:
If Mr. Aslanides bill prevents ONE lowlife,(i'll stop there with the adjectives) terrorist from acquiring a weapon it's worth it.

No offense sir.....but if you are not a citizen please join the fold ASAP. It's GOOD to be an American and worth whatever hoops you have to jump through.
which in itself shows you are in agreement with......
Prohibit noncitizens from getting concealed-carry licenses
As we already know, crims don't have the greatest track record when it comes down to obeying the law, so this little doozy will not prevent one lowlife from carrying if he chooses to do so.
Petrofergov wrote: Get your CHL with my blessing. When you answer those questions on the form, try to be a little more straightforward than you were with me.
Straightforward?

As far as my CHL had mine since Feb, did my training last August but waited until December to get it as I would have been in Ohio for 5yrs at that point.
Petrofergov wrote: I'll also encourage you to do what you can to become a citizen. If living in this country means as much as you say it does; I am sure you'll consider the process no more than a minor inconvenience.
Already ahead of you, I paid my $390 a month ago, and I visited the Fed building in Cinncy last Friday to get my fingerprints taken. One step closer to becoming a citizen but this does not help others that are not as fortunate as me. I still do not want to see other Resident Aliens that choose to carry disarmed.
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Post by Daniel »

Several posts in this thread have bordered on personal attacks. Please remember to keep disagreements civil.

Thank you.
Daniel White
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We must carry arms because we value our lives and those of our loved ones, because we will not be dealt with by force or threat of force, and do not live at the pleasure and discretion of the lawless. - Jeff Snyder
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Post by Petrovich »

Cable wrote:Several posts in this thread have bordered on personal attacks. Please remember to keep disagreements civil.

Thank you.
I do my best Mr. White. That's why I am exiting this thread permanently.
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Post by RonS »

I'm sorry I revisited this thread tonight, I was enjoying the earlier discussion and the opportunity to exchange ideas and views with posters with different backgrounds and outlooks.
The oppression of any man wounds the liberty of all men.
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Concealed Carry Licenses Unconstitutional !!

Post by arpjoe »

2nd Amendment affirms the human right of personal protection-self defense. Concealed Carry Licenses are a twisted rationalization for the government to exceed their authority under the color of law. Courts that ruled that the government may regulate the manner in which arms are carried committed judicial treason against the intent of the 2nd Amendment. Then to say that non-citizens should be prohibited from concealed carry of arms for personal protection is allowing the most fundamental of human rights violations.

Wake up. If the proposed law more negitively affects law-abiding persons then the law is crap. Only governments and criminals support gun control because it only disarms the law-abiding person. Remember, police protection will never replace personal protection.
JLA

He is a fool who knows not that swords were given to men, that none might be slave, but such as know not how to use them..

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Ch. 2, sect. 4, p. 343
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Post by Glock and dagger »

Jim-in-Toledo wrote:
Petrofergov wrote:
Cable wrote:
RonS is correct. The constitution does not grant any rights. It simply recognizes that those rights exist.




No offense, but isn't that the same thing?


Not quite, if it is granted, it can be taken away.


Not quite.

It can't be taken away, but you can forfeit it.
If any gov't grants rights to its citizens, they can be taken away.

Since God grants us our rights, no gov't can take them away, but they CAN refuse to acknowledge them, and show their contempt of God and of its citizens.

There is a difference.
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Petrovich
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Post by Petrovich »

Glock and dagger wrote:
Jim-in-Toledo wrote:
Petrofergov wrote:
Cable wrote:
RonS is correct. The constitution does not grant any rights. It simply recognizes that those rights exist.




No offense, but isn't that the same thing?


Not quite, if it is granted, it can be taken away.


Not quite.

It can't be taken away, but you can forfeit it.

If any gov't grants rights to its citizens, they can be taken away.

Since God grants us our rights, no gov't can take them away, but they CAN refuse to acknowledge them, and show their contempt of God and of its citizens.

There is a difference.
Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? 19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. [1] 20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription [2] 21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Matthew 22:21
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