Self Defense Insurance

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M-Quigley
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Location: Western Ohio

Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by M-Quigley »

One of the things that concerned me about US law shield was a thread on another forum that said US law shield wouldn't cover you if you were attacked by a family member. This concerned me because I once had a very distant family member threaten in writing to kill my wife and I. His wife was at the top of the list, but we were (down on) the list, and he would've eventually tried for us. Fortunity he got shot before he could carry out his plans so I'm not worried about that specific situation anymore, but it just goes to show you not all lethal threats come from total strangers, particularly in a domestic violence situation. I had a chance to go to a seminar put on by an attorney for US law shield. The lecture he gave on Ohio law r/t gun use, self defense, etc was very basic and stuff I and most others knew already, but I suppose if you were in the audience and didn't know the basics, it would've been helpful to someone. I've met a couple of people since unlicensed carry came into effect that had no clue what the law was in Ohio if you carried a gun and got into a potential situation, can I draw my gun but not shoot? can I shoot? Do I have to retreat first? etc. So I can doing whatever I want now, wherever I want, and if somebody threatens me I can shoot them? :roll: Anyway, at the end I asked him about what if your attacker is a relative, will US law shield defend you? And the answer was, in the past they did not, but now they do. They realized a significant number of cases involve relatives of some kind.

disclaimer: Although he said this, obviously read what your signing when and if you sign up for any CC insurance.
Bearable
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Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by Bearable »

Attorney Sean Maloney (Lobbyist with Buckeye Firearms Association, and Co-Founder of Second Call Defense) is the promoter of Second Call Defense. A number of years ago I asked him for a copy of the policy for review before considering to sign-up. No can do, He would only supply the highlights. These promoters usually will never supply you with the actual insurer.
jed441
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:53 pm

Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by jed441 »

M-Quigley wrote:One of the things that concerned me about US law shield was a thread on another forum that said US law shield wouldn't cover you if you were attacked by a family member. This concerned me because I once had a very distant family member threaten in writing to kill my wife and I. His wife was at the top of the list, but we were (down on) the list, and he would've eventually tried for us. Fortunity he got shot before he could carry out his plans so I'm not worried about that specific situation anymore, but it just goes to show you not all lethal threats come from total strangers, particularly in a domestic violence situation. I had a chance to go to a seminar put on by an attorney for US law shield. The lecture he gave on Ohio law r/t gun use, self defense, etc was very basic and stuff I and most others knew already, but I suppose if you were in the audience and didn't know the basics, it would've been helpful to someone. I've met a couple of people since unlicensed carry came into effect that had no clue what the law was in Ohio if you carried a gun and got into a potential situation, can I draw my gun but not shoot? can I shoot? Do I have to retreat first? etc. So I can doing whatever I want now, wherever I want, and if somebody threatens me I can shoot them? :roll: Anyway, at the end I asked him about what if your attacker is a relative, will US law shield defend you? And the answer was, in the past they did not, but now they do. They realized a significant number of cases involve relatives of some kind.

disclaimer: Although he said this, obviously read what your signing when and if you sign up for any CC insurance.


In my conversation with CCW Safe, he said were about to remove this clause from their terms as well, however their terms only mention Domestic Relations.
attached from there wording,

DOMESTIC RELATIONSHIPS:
CCW Safe will not provide the services for any domestic violence incident, criminal investigation, or prosecution arising from a use of force incident involving you and current or former member of the household, including, but not limited to, a spouse, former spouse, adult or minor child, or involving those in a current or former dating relationship as defined inapplicable state law.


The way I read this is if they have never lived in your house and you have not been in a relationship with them, it should be covered. I'd call them or visit their website and send them an email for specific's but I absolutely recall him saying they were going to remove it soon because they had an incident they can't talk about right now that ongoing and beyond the scope of what the member could do and they feel that should be covered.
M-Quigley
Posts: 4782
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:06 pm
Location: Western Ohio

Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by M-Quigley »

jed441 wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:One of the things that concerned me about US law shield was a thread on another forum that said US law shield wouldn't cover you if you were attacked by a family member. This concerned me because I once had a very distant family member threaten in writing to kill my wife and I. His wife was at the top of the list, but we were (down on) the list, and he would've eventually tried for us. Fortunity he got shot before he could carry out his plans so I'm not worried about that specific situation anymore, but it just goes to show you not all lethal threats come from total strangers, particularly in a domestic violence situation. I had a chance to go to a seminar put on by an attorney for US law shield. The lecture he gave on Ohio law r/t gun use, self defense, etc was very basic and stuff I and most others knew already, but I suppose if you were in the audience and didn't know the basics, it would've been helpful to someone. I've met a couple of people since unlicensed carry came into effect that had no clue what the law was in Ohio if you carried a gun and got into a potential situation, can I draw my gun but not shoot? can I shoot? Do I have to retreat first? etc. So I can doing whatever I want now, wherever I want, and if somebody threatens me I can shoot them? :roll: Anyway, at the end I asked him about what if your attacker is a relative, will US law shield defend you? And the answer was, in the past they did not, but now they do. They realized a significant number of cases involve relatives of some kind.

disclaimer: Although he said this, obviously read what your signing when and if you sign up for any CC insurance.


In my conversation with CCW Safe, he said were about to remove this clause from their terms as well, however their terms only mention Domestic Relations.
attached from there wording,

DOMESTIC RELATIONSHIPS:
CCW Safe will not provide the services for any domestic violence incident, criminal investigation, or prosecution arising from a use of force incident involving you and current or former member of the household, including, but not limited to, a spouse, former spouse, adult or minor child, or involving those in a current or former dating relationship as defined inapplicable state law.


The way I read this is if they have never lived in your house and you have not been in a relationship with them, it should be covered. I'd call them or visit their website and send them an email for specific's but I absolutely recall him saying they were going to remove it soon because they had an incident they can't talk about right now that ongoing and beyond the scope of what the member could do and they feel that should be covered.
Yes, that sounds right. This clown never lived with us. The people at the top of the list would not be eligible however.
docachna
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Location: Mount Juliet TN

Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by docachna »

Bearable wrote:Attorney Sean Maloney (Lobbyist with Buckeye Firearms Association, and Co-Founder of Second Call Defense) is the promoter of Second Call Defense. A number of years ago I asked him for a copy of the policy for review before considering to sign-up. No can do, He would only supply the highlights. These promoters usually will never supply you with the actual insurer.
I find it very disappointing that an attorney would refuse to provide a person who is seeking to enter into a contract with the "insurance company" (not sure it's really an insurance company), a copy of the actual contract of "insurance". It's beyond me how he can expect you to know if you wish to buy the contract if you don't know what the contract says.

In many years of employment, more than once I found the "highlights" of my major medical policy differed from the actual policy language. Usually, while the "highlights" were interpreted to provide that something was covered, the actual policy language itself did in fact exclude the particular procedure or service. To top that, the policy itself usually said something to the effect of "in the case of any inconsistency between the policy and any promotional material, the language of the policy controls". In other words, don't believe the BS in the promotional folder. The only language that really matters is the policy or document itself. Words to live by in all insurance and contract matters....

This guy knows that perfectly well. As I said, I am very disappointed to find this attorney will not permit a potential customer to read the actual policy, but yet expects him to buy it. As a retired insurance claims attorney of 27 years experience, if he told ME that, I'm out the door, I can tell you that much !
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FormerNavy
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Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by FormerNavy »

Got an email from CCW Safe today announcing that within the next 24 hrs they'd be announcing new benefits and add-on upgrades to existing plans at no additional charge. The forthcoming email is supposed to have the details.
jed441
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:53 pm

Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by jed441 »

FormerNavy wrote:Got an email from CCW Safe today announcing that within the next 24 hrs they'd be announcing new benefits and add-on upgrades to existing plans at no additional charge. The forthcoming email is supposed to have the details.

please post what you get. I haven't received anything yet, but per the phone call they said change was coming. :D
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FormerNavy
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Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by FormerNavy »

jed441 wrote:
FormerNavy wrote:Got an email from CCW Safe today announcing that within the next 24 hrs they'd be announcing new benefits and add-on upgrades to existing plans at no additional charge. The forthcoming email is supposed to have the details.

please post what you get. I haven't received anything yet, but per the phone call they said change was coming. :D

I guess it depends on which plan you have - I have the Ultimate plan. Here is what they said:

-- $1 mil bond coverage for primary & spouse -> increased to $1.5 mil bond coverage for primary & spouse
-- $1 mil civil liability coverage for primary -> increased to $1.5 mil civil liability coverage for primary
-- Loss of wages during criminal or civil trial increased to $1,000/day
-- Firearm replacement at MSRP
-- Up to $15,000 reimbursement for funeral expenses of covered member killed during self-defense incident
-- Costs related to court sanctioned monitoring devices through last day of related trial
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FormerNavy
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Location: Southwest Ohio

Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by FormerNavy »

Here is a video where they go over the upgraded plans:

https://youtu.be/N62Uk-9AcY0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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BB62
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Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by BB62 »

jed441 wrote:So I called CCW Safe today and spoke to their Critical Incident Response Team Specialist...
You may want to check out Self Defense Fund.

https://www.selfdefensefund.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Bearable
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:32 pm
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Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by Bearable »

BB62 wrote:
jed441 wrote:So I called CCW Safe today and spoke to their Critical Incident Response Team Specialist...
You may want to check out Self Defense Fund.

https://www.selfdefensefund.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is NOT insurance. Read the Terms & Conditions Agreement. Especially items 18 and 19. I'm sorry, your claim doesn't fit into our recently changed Terms & Conditions Agreement.
https://www.selfdefensefund.com/terms-a ... embership/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
tracker1
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Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by tracker1 »

I went wi USCCA. The main reason is their high bond payout. These trials can go on for months, I don’t want to be sitting in jail all of that time. So for me it’s the bond and legal defense that is priority.
Member - Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network
Bigger Bullets Leave Bigger Marks
tracker1
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Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by tracker1 »

I would suggest contacting your trusted attorney to review what ever you are considering. There is a lot of misinformation floating around, some competitor propaganda, and just people not understanding legal issues. Also, people not understanding the process. I started with
ACLDN and had it for years but as others have said it’s a defense fund where others will decide what they will do and how much. I did like the concept of education because what you say will have a lot to do with how things will go. My biggest issue was bond, trying to deal with everything from a jail cell put you at a serious disadvantage. USCCA fits me but I will probably add ACLDN on top of USCCA.
Last year when I really did a lot of research I almost decided I don’t even want to carry. It just seems you are screwed in so many ways, not only if you use a gun to defend yourself but even if you have to pull the gun.
I have always been a strong advocate for the use of pepper spray, I use Fox. I spend about 200.00 every three years on different canister sizes including a one pound canister for the car in case I find myself in the middle of a protest/riot. I do not carry a firearm without pepper spray.
Member - Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network
Bigger Bullets Leave Bigger Marks
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skylinechiliboi
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Location: Ohio

Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by skylinechiliboi »

Thanks for all this good info. I started looking into this for myself and it was pretty overwhelming.

I did find this article that has some decent info. https://gununiversity.com/concealed-carry-insurance/

To be honest, I thought this author was just a long range shooting guy but turns out he is a lawyer also, so I imagine he knows what he is talking about on this subject.

Seems like CCW Safe and USCCA are his top suggestions, as many in this post have mentioned. Anybody heard of Right to Bear Insurance or have any experience? I had not heard of them until reading this article.
M-Quigley
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Location: Western Ohio

Re: Self Defense Insurance

Post by M-Quigley »

jed441 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:42 pm So this seems to still be a limited informative topic. I have been doing research and what I find is that USCCA is a fraud. CCW Safe is the only company with a listed case they fought and one for someone using deadly force with a firearm. They fought and won. The hang ups are that if your charged, they don't cover for FLP or USCCA, but CCW Safe does. There is an attorneys for freedom that goes through the contracts for FLP and USCCA and he points out that you are not covered and think you may be. That's pretty scary! Can we get this topic going and get this resolved once and for all?
I would be surprised if the armed citizens legal defense network (which they say is technically NOT an insurance plan) has never fought and won a case, particularly since Mas Ayoob is part of that group, and it's been well documented the number of cases that he's testified on. There is another firearms use of force expert that is part of their group that has a similar number of cases that he is documented to have testified in court that is less well known among the public but is very well known in legal circles but I can't recall his name right now.
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