State ranges and training

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Re: State ranges and training

Postby johnwilliamson062 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:31 pm

I asked about a couple ranges specifically and then outlined a general problem, but did not mention the Tranquility range.

On the taxes, sort of. There is considerable research on exactly how the costs of corporate taxes are split. It does ot get 100% passed on to consumers. Some comes out of profits, especially in the short-term. Generally speaking, a little over half does get passed on to consumers.
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Re: State ranges and training

Postby Mr. Glock » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:35 pm

In the short term, is the operative part. A business needs to make X off their product, but sometimes X is not an efficient profit margin. Then they re-calibrate with a new market situation. This takes time. So, they dip their profit levels to buy that time. But that change does not last forever in most clearing markets.

Wonder why so much production moved off-shore during rising corporate tax rates (say, Obama)? Not the only reason, but a quick way to increase profit margin in a rapidly changing market. This is not absolute, just example of how everything flows downstream.

Overall, you are incorrect that only about 50% of the tax is paid by consumers, the rest absorbed out of profits,
in the medium to long term. For a year one new tax, where the market may not allow full pass along (forward contracts etc), yes. For a known tax, no, the end user pays all. That’s why Wall Street likes long-term taxation rates- rate unimportant- as companies can plan for it. Which means pass it along.

But, with Pittman-Robinson, which has been around for closing in on a century? You are paying that one as the end consumer. You save 11% buying a stripped lower and then building your AR vs buying the whole she-bang assembled. Ok, not quite...you pay the 11% on the stripped lower.
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Re: State ranges and training

Postby johnwilliamson062 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:49 pm

Planning for is not the same as passing on. Your explanation is not far off, but it is not exactly correct.
I could go into lecture mode, but I don't think anyone wants that.
I work in corporate finance and my education is in economics. Some of my work is forecasting.
Tax changes were a good excuse to move things that, from a strictly financial perspective, probably should have been moved long ago. Both worker safety and polution regulations are not close to competitive in the US. Only way to manufacture here is high automation, or as one company I worked at, charge ridiculous prices internally for cheap parts with low labor cost so you can mark items really made overseas Made in USA or whatever.
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Re: State ranges and training

Postby Mr. Glock » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:10 pm

If you work in corporate finance, then you know “The Man” gets his money, whether that is a profit percentage by a private owner or the shareholders in a public company. Sure, PE can be different in time frame, but same idea. If you jump up taxes, and the business can’t adjust quickly, “The Man” still gets his money....by , say, laying off what is probably his highest cost, labor, to save the profit margin.

It’s no different with taxes in the middle and long-term, they get passed along as fast as possible because no one runs a business for free. If they aren’t planned for- and thus passed on- then that cost comes out of some other part of the business. Thus, a corporate tax is always fully passed on, it’s not coming out of profit.
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Re: State ranges and training

Postby Brian D. » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:26 pm

So I was reading over at the BFA forums, that Ohio DNR is having an open house/preview of the new improved Spring Valley ranges this weekend, Friday October 23rd. The honchos of BFA were invited to attend. Was anybody from our organization given the same opportunity?

I'd be willing to go see the new facility, it's sure been shut down long enough.
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Re: State ranges and training

Postby JustaShooter » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:30 pm

Brian D. wrote:So I was reading over at the BFA forums, that Ohio DNR is having an open house/preview of the new improved Spring Valley ranges this weekend, Friday October 23rd. The honchos of BFA were invited to attend. Was anybody from our organization given the same opportunity?

Not to the best of my knowledge.
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Re: State ranges and training

Postby johnwilliamson062 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:13 pm

Well, to be fair I believe Larry Moore is in BFA. He is also the outdoors writer for all the area's local papers. It is not surprising they would want him to see it first and it would be easy to extend the invitation to all BFA leadership.
Oddly, it does not seem as though Mr. Moore has published an articl in almost a year. I could not find any more information on his condition.
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Re: State ranges and training

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:26 pm

I sent some emails requesting an invite.

Fingers crossed.
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Re: State ranges and training

Postby JEaton » Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:59 am

johnwilliamson062 wrote:Well, to be fair I believe Larry Moore is in BFA. He is also the outdoors writer for all the area's local papers. It is not surprising they would want him to see it first and it would be easy to extend the invitation to all BFA leadership.
Oddly, it does not seem as though Mr. Moore has published an articl in almost a year. I could not find any more information on his condition.


Larry Moore is still doing fine and active with BFA, ODNR, and other groups, and he is still writing also as far as I know.

I am trying to get to the spring valley tour on Friday but it is tentative on a work meeting wrapping up early.

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Re: State ranges and training

Postby BEAR! » Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:36 pm

So did any of our brethren attend the open house?
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Re: State ranges and training

Postby Brian D. » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:51 am

I thought about showing up without an invitation, but it's further than I want to drive and get turned away from.

Most Sundays I shoot near Xenia and Spring Valley is along the way, so either tomorrow or next week I'll stop by.
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Re: State ranges and training

Postby JEaton » Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:11 pm

I made it to the range on Friday. Look for a story at BFA Monday and a PR from state.

ODNR Chief Kendra Weckler was there along with Todd Haynes and a couple of the local range workers. Short story is it will open Friday and all the pistol and rifle ranges are way over engineered you will have to intentionally try to get a bullet off the range otherwise it's almost impossible for lead to leave the range. They're finishing up adding dividers for covid restrictions.

Unfortunately pistol range is still 25 yd The CCW portion can do 7 yd. they did set the 50 and 100 yard ranges up so you can overflow from the 25-yard range and shoot it shorter distances That's an improvement.

they have also added a small water treatment plant so they have potable water there restrooms drinking fountains etc.

The outdoor education center is fantastic it's set up with a very large open area they can shoot archery indoors they have a wet room so they can do the butchering and taxidermy classes it's very well soundproof so they can even run events and classes while shooting is going on on the range.

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Re: State ranges and training

Postby johnwilliamson062 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:13 pm

That sounds great. Really impressive facilities. I have to talk to my realtor buddy about keeping an eye out for property down there.
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