Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:46 pm

Mr. Glock wrote:It is interesting to me that you are working on the red dot, as I just embarked on that journey. I was holding off, but my 25 yards groups started to turn into patterns (i.e. shotgun patterns) due to aging eyes. I happened to listen to a Primary & Secondary podcast on red dots, so decided to follow their advice for a starter rig....Glock G19 MOS, CHPW base plate and Holosun 407c. The only thing I ever liked about the old Eotech stuff was the dot in donut, so the 507c works in that same fashion (although you can cycle between 3 options). I added a set of Dawson Precision RMR height sights, in plain black as I don't want a lot of confusion with bright colors in the window. Since I'm a Gen 3 fan, I picked up a Gen 4 MOS, but the grip is a little different, adding it's own complexity in my first outing.

I've recently shot 400 rounds in two range sessions, and here are my observations so far: BTW: On purpose, I have yet to do any detailed research about making the switch, I did want to try it out cold first, collect my observations and then do some additional research. Jeep, I'll hit your links above at some point. I zeroed at 10 yards.

Accuracy: Yes, big benefit. My 25 yards groups have never been tighter. My 50 yard groups look like my old 25 non-RD groups now too.

Speed: No problem at longer ranges, even on the clock, where you need to normally take the time to align the sights properly. I'm looking for the dot, not looking at sights and then the dot. With correct presentation, the dot is right there. But, under about 5 yards, I am still slower. I'm used to really moving quickly in that yardage, and, with the distance, accept some presentation slop with irons as I look over them to some extent at the target. That doesn't work so well with the red dot. Of course, under 5 yards, the target tends to fill up the whole window, so straight speed rounds still impact on a torso target, but just not as accurate as irons at the same speed. If I run low-ready 5 rounds x 5 yards x 5 inch circle, and if, for example, I could shoot 2.75 with irons, then red dot is 3.25 for same accuracy. Being higher above the bore, it also seems I have to offset a little more on the target close up, but that could just be me letting the gun move too much. Seems about a half second longer, which is initial alignment and not allowing the gun to move around so much.

Training Tool: I haven't been shooting as much pistol this year, and a bunch of it has been on steel or larger cardboard at closer distances at higher speeds. I've become sloppy with allowing the gun to move around, and riding that movement. The red dot certainly shows why my precision at speed has suffered, which impacts longer distance-faster shots. I found that a great benefit, and my groups have tightened back up with both irons and red dot. Its also helped with one-handed shooting too, but that comes mostly from gripping the gun harder to keep the dot visible.

I need to spend some time learning about close up-faster shooting, for sure. And I need new holsters (OWB to start, those Dawson sights are big/stepped and don't work well with most holsters). As I suspected, I'll be re-equipping to support RD-equipment. But, RDs seem to be helpful and worth the expenditure at this early stage.

Any input- positive or negative - on the above is welcome. I'm sharing to further conversation and learning. I'm obviously in the early stages of this project.


Give this another listen, especially regarding close in shooting - He's going to be in Cleves, OH twice in 2020, and is a very accomplished red dot shooter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpR6UkR9Tw4

I've been wearing glasses since the 3rd grade, needed them before, and have astigmatism in both eyes. Prior to around 2010 I could still run aimpoints on rifles at 500 yards with good accuracy, it's not in the cards now. Trijicon, Sig, and the Holosun are usable for me, at least for pistols. A huge highlight beyond accuracy, is forcing you to have your presentation AND recoil management on point to run a dot - this translates to an iron sight gun, as the dot doesn't allow for slop.

JM custom and Dark Star Gear have really changed my standards on holsters in a very, very good way. I'd recommend looking at their offerings, and possibly contacting them about a custom setup if one isn't on the market as an offering straight up.

My foray into it will be a simple rear dovetail mount, as it's an endeavor to do 1911's with rear back up sights. Once my skill level is up and proven, I'll be looking at doing a proper mount setup on my carry.
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:00 am

Biggest point right now is the part times for dry fire have been steadily decreasing. I'm also talking to a local range on Monday that's 1/2 the distance as my old one, has steel permanently setup, etc..

My Springfield 9mm gov. wouldn't accept anything that wasn't 115 grain, and favored Magtec - practically nothing else would chamber plunk. A resized empty piece of brass would stick REALLY proud out of the chamber hood, so a finish reamer was ordered. Finished that this morning over coffee, plenty of cutting oil, stopping/cleaning/checking constantly, only took a few minutes all said and done. She swallows 1.150" 124 grain pills now no problem, and we'll see how she shoots on Monday. Have an EGW dovetail adapter to remove the LPA rear sight from this gun and mount the Holosun 407c on it. I couldn't justify the money to mill a pistol for a trail of how it works out, so I'll be working on carry optics during the coming year. If that works out, I'll be looking at an alloy commander 1911 to mill out for the trijicon plate and put a dot on it for carry.

Image
Chamber before
Image
Brass standing proud
Image
Material after 2 full turns
Image
Plunk tests perfectly
Image
Chamber after
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby glove » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:30 am

Pictures not working.
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:34 pm

glove wrote:Pictures not working.

Re-attempt with chamber pictures:

Chamber before - would only plunk test with 115grain ammo, 124 grain locked it up solid out of battery
https://ibb.co/TmtFMTS
Resized, empty brass standing proud
https://ibb.co/XzqvfBL
Material after 2 full turns - reamer was pulled frequently to clean/check the chamber, re-oiled/cleaned before insertion
https://ibb.co/L8qSNbZ
Resized, empty brass afterwards - plunk tests with 124 grain 9mm as far as the magazine can handle them now
https://ibb.co/FH7rHv7
Chamber after
https://ibb.co/tK7wJpg
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:17 pm

Got the red dot on the slide, man it forces you to have your grip and draw stroke spot on to be effective. That’s a good thing I think for long term development.

Spent 2.5 hours working basic dry fire drills tonight. Moved the par times up due to the dot and just starting to do any work with them.

6, reload, 6 dry fire drill on a 6 second par, well above the 5 seconds suggested for a par. I found as I worked through it that my dot would just show up if my eyes were on the target, and it was horrible if I reverted back into treating the dot like a front sight.

2/2/2, reload, 2/2/2 - https://youtu.be/akRuQkOFbVo
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:51 pm

The range I joined put up a photo of some of us, including another fellow I shoot matches with a lot. First time seeing myself from another vantage point besides the mirror, and I can say I look quite a bit happier than in years past, not as fat as the mirror says I look, and that 1911 isn't visible at all in a tight hoodie. I'll take it.

Image
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:16 pm

As 2019 comes to a close, 2020 is an opportunity, as is every day, to refocus on the goals that matter to you within the context you choose to apply. My 2020 goal is to be a better competition style shooter, with focus on speed, accuracy, efficiency of movement, and foot work, etc..

My tools are aimed to replicate the same grip, feel, weight, etc. as possible for consistency’s sake. My hands are medium/large – I wear Large gloves, but the fingers are always too long, and I can’t really wear medium gloves. To that end, the thin grips reduce the circumference allowing my hands the largest wrap around possible, and this also creates a rectangular profile of the grip when viewed from the bottom to the top – this gives large space for my palms to contact the frame.

GSG 1911-22 with Dawson sights (fiber front/plain rear), flat mainspring housing, cheap slim grips/bushings/screws and a removed magazine disconnect. In the mail is an aftermarket bushing/conical muzzle end to address the inconsistent barrel to slide fit (thus bore to sight alignment). This uses easily available magazines that are the same general weight and size/shape as the 1911 magazines. I do not use a magazine well on this pistol.
It’s nickname is GC - giggle cannon.

Springfield Ranger Officer Elite Target (holy marketing Batman!) This is stock outside of an EGW mainspring with a magwell, and an EGW dovetail RMR mount that has a Holosun 407C on it. This is intended for IDPA carry optics and general practice, as the red dot allows for an incredible amount of feedback during recoil. It also is ‘floating’ in the frame, with no physical reference points like iron sights; this means your draw and grip need to be spot on to avoid fishing for the dot. This gun honestly makes it feel like I’m shooting very slow, but accurate – the shot timer disagrees with that statement once you understand a few things about it, and it really increases your accuracy downrange since sight alignment is mechanically fixed. I’ve worn glasses since the 3rd grade, probably needed before then, have astigmatism, and also had the incorrect scripts for my glasses for most of my life before the mid-20’s. This should prove to be an interesting experiment with a lot of potential for skill growth, and if this becomes my standard then a red-dot will get milled into slides for my pistols.
It’s nickname is the Blob (astigmatism)

Dan Wesson Valor. This is bone stock outside of a standard profile slide stop being installed by DW customer service. The gun had problems with extraction initially and was sent back to the motherland, and due to a long, long time of being there and my FFL calling weekly, the gun was sent to the custom shop for everything done to it as a way to make it right. They did a great job. I’m not a huge fan of the ledge on the rear sight, as I’ve had it catch on shirts and crap occasionally without really adding anything to the sight picture. The above two pistols help build skill development that ultimately translate to this pistol, which is my goal.
This has no nickname – it is my divorce present.

I run an hour of dry fire training 4 days a week, and now that I belong to a damn good club that’s between work and home (and close to home), I put at least one day a week with about 200 rounds focusing on just one or two goals to confirm that my dryfire work is translating to the live fire range.

Here’s to another loop around the Sun, and acknowledgement that you don’t have to wait to change something.

1.55 draw, .20/.22 splits with the Valor
https://youtu.be/KKLsgqpVvFM
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:28 pm

28DEC2019 -
9mm commander, iron sights

Sunset at 17:52, started the range session @ 17:30 or so with no light sources of any kind, and blue tinted safety glasses. I did not pick up anything from the tritium sights when working on speed, and the un-painted steel on the dirt backstop with diminishing light and the glasses color made a big impact on getting a good sight picture for me.

Started the range session is 9 loaded 9mm mags (81 rounds)

One bill drill @ 7 yards on a 10x10 square piece of steel - 1.58 /.23/.21/.22/.20/.17 splits, 2.66 sec overall

The rest of the ammo was simply draw/first shot hit. Working on getting faster and smoother out of AIWB concealed - open hip I run 1.09-1.27, appendix concealed I was hovering 1.35-1.45.




Got my dry-fire targets hung up. These scale out to be about 15, 20, and 30 meters (16/21/32 yards). 15 and 30 meter scales are on one wall, 20's on the other. They have small nail holes in them, I hung with command strips for flexibility on mounting on doors, and easy to re-arrange and duplicate a stage I've really messed up recently if I so desire.

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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:10 pm

5" 9mm w/ Holosun 407C - 3 fistfuls of ammo, whatever that worked out to. Chilly, no gloves, hip holster under a hoodie.

Worked 3 steel targets about 3 yards apart from each other, 2/2/2 reload 2/2/2 like a dry fire drill I have. Found that if I stare at the target the dot has a much better chance of showing up on the initial draw. Dot is now starting to track much, much more vertically than when I started just recently. Time is about twice of what the dry fire drill is. Sharp head snaps for the transitions made for much faster engagements on the next target.

Paced off about 25 yards and shot a piece of steel about 2 1911 mags tall and 1.5 1911 mags wide - this dot makes 25 yard shooting at a decent cadence feel like cheating.

Sent 10 rounds of 124gr HST through the Valor on a vertical plate tower where the disks flip flip sides and drop down after getting hit. These 9mm 1911's really are like cheating.



PT side of things, working on a trainer Captain o Crush, at 6-7 on the left hand, and I stop at the same on the right, in addition to running a therband flexbar and a few other hand-opening exercises/stretches. My left basal joint of the thumb is still sore if it moves wrong, but not as bad especially after doing these exercises. Also discovered by accident a downtown MMA gym moved in about 10 minutes away and they have an open house on Sunday, so I'll be seeing what they have to offer.
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:42 pm

And the video compilation finally finished

The bill drill was stupid slow - 3.85 seconds. I'm usually in the 2.5 or so second range, which I still consider slow for this gun/distance/etc. Plenty of other things to chew on for me that are mentioned in the description, in addition to basics of trigger press. And wow does that dot help let me focus on the trigger press.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMyL_5mcgI4&feature=youtu.be
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:28 pm

Chronograph'd my reloads through Blur and Valor to make sure I won't have any issues at matches.124 grain load over Winchester 231:

Blur - 1073 (cold bore), 1010, 1042, 1034, 1042 fps (133/125/129/128/129 power factor)
Valor - 1000 (cold bore), 1008, 1003, 993, 1011 (124/124/124/123/125) for the same load.

Bumped the powder charge up .1 to make sure I wouldn't have any issues at a match with Valor. 3/4" barrel length difference between the two.

Did doubles drills on steel with the left over ammo. Forgot the timer, but was happy at shooting faster than I 'think' I did last time, even though I tossed a few. Dot tracks up and down much better than before, need to get the consistency of returning to POA improved.
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:50 am

So life, happens, and after being out of reloading I'm finally back into it with new equipment. I no longer cast my own bullets due to time and location/frustration, I just buy plated bullets at the moment, and will buy a case of coated bullets once my 9mm bullet supply is exhausted.

Calibers reloaded -
.38 special w/ 158grain plated bullets over Winchester 231. 158 grain shoots POA/POI for my J frame revolvers. OAL is to the cannelure.
9mm Luger w/ 124 grain plated/125 grain coated over Winchester 231 124 grain shoots 6 o'clock hold for Valor, Blur has 100 MOA adjustment in the optic. OAL is 1.145"

Winchester 231 was settled on for its flexibility, past experience, ease of local purchase, price, and commentary by Lyman reloading about accuracy potential for of both of these cartridges. My last chrono numbers made power factor for Blur, just under for Valor.
Blur's fps (cold bore) 1073 then 1042/1034/1042
Valor's fps (cold bore) 1000 then 1008/1003/993/1011


Stand : Lee reloading stand. I was skeptical of how stable it would be but needed something compact, portable, and easy to disassemble for a move. This fit the bill and is shockingly stable. I've used the lower shelf as a holder for boxes of bullets and no extra weight, and find it does tend to 'shimmy' over the course of a reloading session or two, and is easily dragged back into place. I'm reloading on smooth concrete, extra weight on the bottom or on carpet/wood flooring would likely eliminate this shimmy effect. It's minimal and I have no plans at the moment to try and prevent it, save putting my left foot behind the front left leg. Works quite well with a garage stool that has an adjustable seat.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012829921?pid=324379

Scale: Frankford arsenal digital scale. It's far superior to a beam scale for my accuracy and ease of use requirements. A built in cover for the scale pad prevents damage in the couple drops I've given it without reducing any repeatability, and comes with a weight with a stamped weight to verify zero. I combine this with a powder funnel/pan combo to do spot checks of powder amounts. One thing manufacturing and life has taught me is that pursuit of perfection leads to stress levels and perfection to another magnitude beyond what your equipment is capable of producing; I simply tar out the scale with the funnel/pan combo and place the powder from 10 drops in the pan, divide by 10, and make sure that number is equivalent to my desired powder charge. The beam scale that Lee includes in the kit is alright at best - it never hurts to have 2 methods of measuring your powder to make sure one scale isn't completely out of calibration.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012948067?pid=755866
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012713364?pid=175512


Press (multiple) : Lee Value turret press kit w/ Lee carbide dies
I got this knowing I would upgrade relatively soon for 9mm, but wanted to start loading as cheaply as I could for 38 special and 9x19 without the time requirement a single stage has. I've used the auto disk powder measure in the past and it works fine, but the auto drum is much, much better, more precise, more repeatable, and easier to setup. I use Lee carbide dies which were sufficient until my shooting volume started to exceed my brass supply and I bought some brass for cheap. I started to have issues with .38spl bullets falling into the case upon seating and found this due to thin walls, usually RP head stamp brass. An EGW U die was purchased and fixed this problem in .38spl. I also purchased one for 9x19 to try and figure out a picky pistol, which ultimately needed gunsmithing work. I still use the U die for 9x19, because it hurts nothing at the end of the day and I had already purchased it. This press is now dedicated to .38special

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013016267?pid=622290
https://www.egwguns.com/undersize-reloading-die-9mm-luger

For Christmas I got a Lee Breech Lock Pro, mounted it on a steel plate for the above stand, moved my 9x19 dies over to it, obtained another safety primer system and auto drum system, and have a case feeder/collator setup on it. The press 'feels' slower than the turret press, but the ammo output is much faster. Yes, the priming system requires you to place a primer just like the turret, and handle a piece of brass and a bullet, it is far more efficient than the turret overall. I produced 500 cartridges without a case feeder last night while watching Forgotten Weapons series. While the press does allow functionality without the case feeder, the case feeder really speeds things up; you're now required to simply operate the safety prime and pick up a bullet, so material handling operations are reduced by a 1/3. Ammo is also much more consistent in OAL than the turret press. I'm very impressed by the single lock-ring eliminator Lee includes, and will order 3 more for my other dies.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019986419
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019986580
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020023248
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101300663
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012832074
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021759910
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012837891
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016832532



To me, the Breech lock pro press offers easier setup than other Lee turret presses, and makes no attempt at imitating a Dillon (I think the LnL AP attempts to be a Dillon, and falls very short of it). Having owned Lee Loadmasters/Turrets/Single stages, Hornady LnL AP, Dillon 650/1050 some setup with various case feeders and bullet feeders, this press has the best bang-for-production and out of any progressive I've ever had while having much safer priming operation than a Loadmaster. A Dillon progressive with motorized case feeder will destroy it in production numbers, but Dillon also costs quite a bit more (for good reason I should add).


Edit - brass prep.

I use the shell sorters since I'm the only one picking up brass at my club, so a rough sort goes a long way to making my life easier, and I pick up every piece of brass I can find.

For cleaning, I'm a huge fan of the Frankford Arsenal wet tumbler. They have 2 sizes, I'd recommend getting the big one for $60 or so more. I don't use pins for bottleneck cases, as they could get stuck below the neck and good luck getting them out. I do use them for straight cases, as this stuff does an incredible job of cleaning the cases and by default getting a lot to the lead residue off/out of the cases so I have less exposure at the end of the day; since it's wet there's no dust on everything. If you use pins, the separator is practically a necessity, and is very very good at getting all the pins out of all of the cases. I use the 'brass dryer' to dry the cases - shake the snot out of them in the blue cage of the separator to get rid of as much water as possible, then load them up in the dryer and let it go overnight. You can use a food dehydrator; I chose to get the brass dryer version because there's no way an accident could happen and somebody uses the food dehydrator for food this way.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012721373
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016958652
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016298842
Last edited by jeep45238 on Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:03 am

Spent a few hours last night doing strong hand index, weak hand index, dry fire drills, burkett reloads, El Pres, etc.. combined with captains o crush, flex bar, and hand extension muscle exercises.

Played around with relative forces applied by my fingers on the index to try and reduce the fishing for the dot on the one-hand draws and discovered that if I apply more force with my pinky/ring fingers the dot tends to be in the middle of the glass both right and left handed. When two handed there's a lot less wobble and the dot tends to be in the middle of the A zone instead of the top of the A zone. I'm interested to see how this plays out in live fire.

I'm also going to have to buy some compression shirts for extended dry fire drills, as t-shirts get all bunched up over the mags and between the thumb safety/holster area. I haven't noticed this being a problem in matches, but it is for an hour or more of holster/mag carrier work.

The ShotMaxx2 is much, much nicer than my old shot timer. Being able to adjust the volume of the buzzer, and having it on my wrist makes my time between reps more efficient and doesn't blast my eardrums apart indoors. So far I remain very impressed by it.
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:35 pm

Snubbie Sunday!

I’ve practiced a decent amount of hip draw with Blur (red dot 9mm 1911) and appendix draw with the Valor (9mm commander) in dryfire and live fire verification and have been happy with the results. I have always been a semi-auto shooter and have focused solely on 1911 models for the past few months and will continue to do so. I have done literally no work with appendix and the J frame, falsely thinking that it’s in the general position, so it’ll kind of work out. Nope, not even close. As a cheap/easy target setup to do a f.a.s.t. drill, 3x5 post-it-notes and 8" paper dinner plates (measure out to 8.62 overall) work really well for me.

I shot some f.a.s.t. drills, mentally reminded myself it wasn’t a 1911 and hit the timer button. 1st drill was clean at a 15.74 and 3 seconds for the first shot; upon clearing the garment my hands went where a grip should have been, and it just wasn’t there. Both groups were easily covered with a fist, and I was just focusing on getting hits.

2nd fast drill was about the same, 15.36 with 3.1 seconds to the first shot, and tossing a shot at the 3x5 and the 8” circle.

3rd fast drill started off much smoother, and it confirmed for me more why I don’t like HKS. The release method is clumsy to me by far compared to the push release of the Safariland comp series, and the release nub was grabbed to pull it out of the holder on this reload when my fingers slipped, which caused all the rounds to get dumped on the ground. I have Safariland speed loaders inbound, and this confirms to me a reason to carry speed strips even if I’m carrying a speed loader. I stopped after the speed loader event.

4rth fast drill was shot at 13.14 and a miss at the head shot. The miss was likely the first shot, since I don’t recall having a sight picture for that shot at all and remember the rest.

I switched over to shooting moderately paced groups at the 7ish yard marker with my reloads and my carry ammo to confirm that recoil feels about the same, and POA/POI is the same between them. Both loads performed the same in the 442-1 Reloads are 158grns over Winchester 231, carry ammo is Hornady 135 grain JHP.

First shot practice on steel at 10 yards after that. I noticed that when I didn’t get a sight picture, I still got a hit on steel about 70% of the time, followed with 5/reload/5 and called it good for the day.

Lessons : practice more with the J. Lock the wrist tendons more to help return the muzzle back to POA after the recoil impulse.

I don’t know how the rushed grip indexed the j frame compared to a 1911, but I know my index with a 1911 is getting better and better. Not great times/accuracy standard I know, but let’s also be honest with what the gun is and that I was trying to run it as close to my 1911 as I could for someone who doesn’t spend much time with revolvers at all.
https://youtu.be/wMG01EU5LAE
You can't truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless.
-Important distinction

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jeep45238
 
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Re: Jeep's getting back into the groove - a training journey

Postby jeep45238 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:12 pm

100 rounds of .22LR through GC after work today. Met a young fellow who just joined and was trying to get the feel for the facilities. Respectful young man who wanted to get practice at a range before going for his CCW, and I gave him GC for a couple mags. He shot with a teacup grip, I gave a quick primer, and we shook hands and we parted ways.
You can't truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless.
-Important distinction

Riton Optics Prostaff
User avatar
jeep45238
 
Posts: 5754
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:29 am
Location: SW Ohio

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