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Appendix Inside the Waistband (w/out holster)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:06 pm
by rimfireOH
Not sure if this thread is right for Training & Tactics or Firearms & Gear -- moderators, feel free to move as needed.

This is a theoretical discussion for me -- I'm not trying to start a holy war, just thinking about this situation.
Let's start by making up a new acronym: AIWBWOH (Appendix Inside the Waistband WithOut Holster), sometimes referred to as "Mexican Carry".

Here's the question: Is it ever safe?
If not, could it be made safe? Would a long trigger pull and an extreme trigger weight be compensating controls? (If so, what trigger weight?) What about a revolver and an empty chamber?

Again, not wishing to start an argument, just a discussion.

Re: Appendix Inside the Waistband (w/out holster)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:34 pm
by Brian D.
There have been some undercover cops, as part of their "character", who carried without holsters so as to appear more dirtbaggish. One who wrote about it stated that using a holster might have drawn suspicion from the bad guys he dealt with. It wasn't his preferred way to carry.

Re: Appendix Inside the Waistband (w/out holster)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:55 pm
by jeep45238
What benefit is there?

Re: Appendix Inside the Waistband (w/out holster)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:59 pm
by TSiWRX
Historically -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPMEVzv0AO4

We've seen modern adaptations of this with the training that Keanu Reeves did for John Wick 2 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY9TJigpcyo

^ But in this case, as with modern doctrine, a holster is used.

The truth, though, is that everything exists on a spectrum. Even some modern polymer-plastic duty holsters - particularly light-bearing ones - do not eliminate the possibility of a trigger finger or other object sneaking in and causing an unintentional (whether this is negligence or not can be debated, but that it is unintentional certainly cannot, and furthermore, have been documented) discharge.

"Safety" is never a certainty - nor is carry without a holster a sealed-sentence in that the practice is "unsafe." To-wit, dan dan the XD40 man, before he left this community, once made the observation that - and I'm paraphrasing here :oops: - "What is a holster but a very well-shaped pocket?" when the discussion revolved (no pun intended) around un-holstered pocket-carry.

Re: Appendix Inside the Waistband (w/out holster)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:44 am
by rouger10
I have too much "appendix" to carry that way. :shock:
But it does seem not too safe and I can imagine how uncomfortable it would be.

Roger

Re: Appendix Inside the Waistband (w/out holster)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:39 pm
by TSiWRX
rouger10 wrote:But it does seem not too safe and I can imagine how uncomfortable it would be.


I've been experimenting with a RCS Vanguard 3 - trying to bring more light into the fight, really. 8) I think I need a claw or claw-clip to wedge the heel of the gun closer to my body, but it's actually surprisingly comfortable, even though I don't wear a layer of clothing between the gun and my naked skin (belly).

And I've actually got a lot of appendix, too. :oops: :lol: Yeah, I'm gonna say it's the appendix. :lol:

Re: Appendix Inside the Waistband (w/out holster)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:57 am
by rimfireOH
Thank you all for your comments and observations. You very quickly gave me much to think about.

jeep45238 wrote:What benefit is there?

I'll admit there is probably none.

Brian D. wrote:There have been some undercover cops, as part of their "character", who carried without holsters so as to appear more dirtbaggish.

I think this gets into the area for why someone might want to carry this way. Although it probably gets thought of more as "cool" than dirtbag by practitioners.

TSiWRX wrote:The truth, though, is that everything exists on a spectrum. <snip>

This also speaks sense to me. And, coupled with:

TSiWRX wrote:"Safety" is never a certainty - nor is carry without a holster a sealed-sentence in that the practice is "unsafe." <snip>

explains to me that degrees of safety exists on a spectrum. We never completely eliminate risk, but we manage it the best that we can by following safe practices.

Again, thank you all for your thoughtful comments and observations.

Re: Appendix Inside the Waistband (w/out holster)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:06 am
by jeep45238
rimfireOH wrote:
TSiWRX wrote:"Safety" is never a certainty - nor is carry without a holster a sealed-sentence in that the practice is "unsafe." <snip>

explains to me that degrees of safety exists on a spectrum. We never completely eliminate risk, but we manage it the best that we can by following safe practices.


Seems like a good way to start is covering the trigger and trigger guard with something highly resistant to external forces.

Re: Appendix Inside the Waistband (w/out holster)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:03 pm
by Klingon00
I’m trying to imagine a good reason any of us would want to carry a gun pointed at out junk (or major artery) and not take the basic precaution of using a proper holster that covers the trigger guard at the least. Perhaps I just lack imagination?

Re: Appendix Inside the Waistband (w/out holster)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:55 pm
by Mr. Glock
So, there is a large population out there that carries this exact way. If you check out the FBI statistics, criminals seldom use a holster. And appendix is one of the methods used pretty frequently.

Hence, the situation that Brian D is referring to above.