pre-press trigger or not to holster?
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
King...Here's what you do...Take the gun and put a live round in the chamber...take the gun and put it some where SAFE so no one can get to it....now wait awhile, how ever long you want,and let us know if the gun goes off....
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I know that sounds stupid because it is.....now take the gun and put it in your SAFE holster with retention....and let us know if the gun goes off...wear it all day...
The only way you'll be comfortable with one in the chamber is to carry that way with a good retention holster.....IT AIN"T GOING OFF UNTIL YOU SQUEEZE THE TRIGGER....Stay Safe...
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I know that sounds stupid because it is.....now take the gun and put it in your SAFE holster with retention....and let us know if the gun goes off...wear it all day...
The only way you'll be comfortable with one in the chamber is to carry that way with a good retention holster.....IT AIN"T GOING OFF UNTIL YOU SQUEEZE THE TRIGGER....Stay Safe...
Life is full of God given coincidences..
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
Brian D wrote:
Cynyster wrote:
<light bulb>
Sounds like a good suggestion for a new TOS policy!
You mean you haven't learned of the the famed "camouflaged cough" tactic?One could find themselves in a situation where they want to get the gun out and ready quietly, but it is not (yet at least) time to shoot. There is no way to do so, without significant risk of causing a feed jam in a semiauto.
Cynyster wrote:
If we waited for some posters to respond, many posts would only be under a page instead of many pages.Wow gang..... King has all of 2 posts... Take a deep breath....
<light bulb>
Sounds like a good suggestion for a new TOS policy!
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
Thank you all for such complete and informative replies and so quickly! Nice forum!
I rcvd a couple PMs but so far have not found a way to reply to them, so if you PMed me, I apologize that I cannot figure how to reply.
Some have asked where this class was, one reply showed that if I told I could have my CCW pulled.... hmmmm sorta easy decision on telling now huh?
I CAN tell you that this SW OH course has 2 trainers with very impressive portfolios. Ex cop, ex FBI, military, etc. Perhaps I am being too harsh on them personally, as I also have first hand experience with a lifetime NRA certified CCW trainer who was similarly lax and even more incompetent. At least our class was 8am thru 1:30pm (minus 1 hour lunch) sitting and hearing stories. In their defense, I will say they DID read the test questions, then read us the answers from the safety book. But I had to draw the line at competence when from 1:30 to 3pm we stood around while 4 folks a time shot 10 rounds at targets with no qualification required, while laughing with their friends behind them, with their FINGERS ON THE TRIGGER WAVING THEIR GUNS AROUND AT US AND THE INSTRUCTORS TOTALLY IGNORING IT! At least they had a 4' high mound of dirt behind the paper plates; the other NRA instructor used full body targets & asked his students to please not shoot at the head since there was no backdrop and the bullets could hit the houses behind..... Perhaps we and our friends who took this class are too picky.
Thank you all for very good replies. I see that pre-pulling the trigger is a VERY BAD IDEA as it could lead to doing so with a round in the chamber by mistake - THANK YOU! Although my Glock 21 has no formal safety, my S&W 380 bodygaurd does. As I practice more and more, I am seeing myself become capable of a round in the chamber - on the S&W: its safety can be flicked off with effort at same time as pulling from holster. With only about 500 rounds under my belt so far in the 2 months since getting guns, holstering around the house and work, and studying, I am getting more and more comfortable. Thank you all!
I rcvd a couple PMs but so far have not found a way to reply to them, so if you PMed me, I apologize that I cannot figure how to reply.
Some have asked where this class was, one reply showed that if I told I could have my CCW pulled.... hmmmm sorta easy decision on telling now huh?
I CAN tell you that this SW OH course has 2 trainers with very impressive portfolios. Ex cop, ex FBI, military, etc. Perhaps I am being too harsh on them personally, as I also have first hand experience with a lifetime NRA certified CCW trainer who was similarly lax and even more incompetent. At least our class was 8am thru 1:30pm (minus 1 hour lunch) sitting and hearing stories. In their defense, I will say they DID read the test questions, then read us the answers from the safety book. But I had to draw the line at competence when from 1:30 to 3pm we stood around while 4 folks a time shot 10 rounds at targets with no qualification required, while laughing with their friends behind them, with their FINGERS ON THE TRIGGER WAVING THEIR GUNS AROUND AT US AND THE INSTRUCTORS TOTALLY IGNORING IT! At least they had a 4' high mound of dirt behind the paper plates; the other NRA instructor used full body targets & asked his students to please not shoot at the head since there was no backdrop and the bullets could hit the houses behind..... Perhaps we and our friends who took this class are too picky.
Thank you all for very good replies. I see that pre-pulling the trigger is a VERY BAD IDEA as it could lead to doing so with a round in the chamber by mistake - THANK YOU! Although my Glock 21 has no formal safety, my S&W 380 bodygaurd does. As I practice more and more, I am seeing myself become capable of a round in the chamber - on the S&W: its safety can be flicked off with effort at same time as pulling from holster. With only about 500 rounds under my belt so far in the 2 months since getting guns, holstering around the house and work, and studying, I am getting more and more comfortable. Thank you all!
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
Rough reply but probably true. At least I am working my TOWARD chambered. 3 months ago I didn't even have a gun to TRY to help myself. BTW, I do best with self teaching (reading reading reading) and practice. I can now put 10 rounds within a 3" circle at 15 feet, I can take down my glock and put back together in less than 1 minute, I am working on the wonderful exercises shown in this doc: http://wp2.pikecosheriff.com/wp-content ... iculum.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Kay-
The extra time it takes for a newbie to rack the slide and get on target is enough time for your attacker to kill you.
That keeps him safe and eliminates another gun owner.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my newbie question.
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
I think Kay's gonna leave us hanging.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
Yep - gonna leave us in the dust. Up side: We can always say, "Why we knew her back when . . ."pirateguy191 wrote:I think Kay's gonna leave us hanging.
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
That info is outdated. Things have changed since 2007. You came here seeking help and that's what we're trying to do, help you. If there is an OPOTA certified trainer out there that is doing short non-compliant classes it needs to stop.king wrote:Rough reply but probably true. At least I am working my TOWARD chambered. 3 months ago I didn't even have a gun to TRY to help myself. BTW, I do best with self teaching (reading reading reading) and practice. I can now put 10 rounds within a 3" circle at 15 feet, I can take down my glock and put back together in less than 1 minute, I am working on the wonderful exercises shown in this doc: http://wp2.pikecosheriff.com/wp-content ... iculum.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Kay-
The extra time it takes for a newbie to rack the slide and get on target is enough time for your attacker to kill you.
That keeps him safe and eliminates another gun owner.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my newbie question.
You obviously didn't get the training you should have gotten.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
You cannot send private messages until you have 5 public messages. It's a thing to stop hit and run spammers. It looks like you should be able to send private messages now.king wrote:Thank you all for such complete and informative replies and so quickly! Nice forum!
I rcvd a couple PMs but so far have not found a way to reply to them, so if you PMed me, I apologize that I cannot figure how to reply.
Some have asked where this class was, one reply showed that if I told I could have my CCW pulled.... hmmmm sorta easy decision on telling now huh?
I CAN tell you that this SW OH course has 2 trainers with very impressive portfolios. Ex cop, ex FBI, military, etc. Perhaps I am being too harsh on them personally, as I also have first hand experience with a lifetime NRA certified CCW trainer who was similarly lax and even more incompetent. At least our class was 8am thru 1:30pm (minus 1 hour lunch) sitting and hearing stories. In their defense, I will say they DID read the test questions, then read us the answers from the safety book. But I had to draw the line at competence when from 1:30 to 3pm we stood around while 4 folks a time shot 10 rounds at targets with no qualification required, while laughing with their friends behind them, with their FINGERS ON THE TRIGGER WAVING THEIR GUNS AROUND AT US AND THE INSTRUCTORS TOTALLY IGNORING IT! At least they had a 4' high mound of dirt behind the paper plates; the other NRA instructor used full body targets & asked his students to please not shoot at the head since there was no backdrop and the bullets could hit the houses behind..... Perhaps we and our friends who took this class are too picky.
Thank you all for very good replies. I see that pre-pulling the trigger is a VERY BAD IDEA as it could lead to doing so with a round in the chamber by mistake - THANK YOU! Although my Glock 21 has no formal safety, my S&W 380 bodygaurd does. As I practice more and more, I am seeing myself become capable of a round in the chamber - on the S&W: its safety can be flicked off with effort at same time as pulling from holster. With only about 500 rounds under my belt so far in the 2 months since getting guns, holstering around the house and work, and studying, I am getting more and more comfortable. Thank you all!
If your course was not 12 hours, it was not a valid course and your license is probably invalid. Without a valid license, you may be carrying illegally. I strongly suggest that you enroll in another class. There are much better (and safer) ones available.
Ken
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
I don't think that you or your friends were too picky, at all. That's just blatant disregard for the students' safety - law-enforcement/military background or not, that's just poor form outright.king wrote: Some have asked where this class was, one reply showed that if I told I could have my CCW pulled.... hmmmm sorta easy decision on telling now huh?
I CAN tell you that this SW OH course has 2 trainers with very impressive portfolios. Ex cop, ex FBI, military, etc. Perhaps I am being too harsh on them personally, as I also have first hand experience with a lifetime NRA certified CCW trainer who was similarly lax and even more incompetent. At least our class was 8am thru 1:30pm (minus 1 hour lunch) sitting and hearing stories. In their defense, I will say they DID read the test questions, then read us the answers from the safety book. But I had to draw the line at competence when from 1:30 to 3pm we stood around while 4 folks a time shot 10 rounds at targets with no qualification required, while laughing with their friends behind them, with their FINGERS ON THE TRIGGER WAVING THEIR GUNS AROUND AT US AND THE INSTRUCTORS TOTALLY IGNORING IT! At least they had a 4' high mound of dirt behind the paper plates; the other NRA instructor used full body targets & asked his students to please not shoot at the head since there was no backdrop and the bullets could hit the houses behind..... Perhaps we and our friends who took this class are too picky.
Just because someone is a professional gunman doesn't mean that they're exempt from the cardinal rules of firearms safety. Their disregard of the Golden Rules speaks a lot for their professionalism - or lack thereof - as both professional gunmen as well as instructors. This kind of attitude and practice is reflected in the following notorious YouTube moment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKjYlpex4OM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
^ Where the "I'm the only one professional enough" ex-DEA Agent shot himself during a classroom demonstration on, ironically enough, firearms safety.
Equally as bad, their abbreviated class construct leaves -ALL- of their students open to the revocation of their license, and worse, legally speaking.
As with others here I would sincerely implore you and your friends to shop around (asking around here is one great way to get some solid recommendations) and take a course that actually properly meets Ohio's legal requirements for concealed handgun licensing, before you're forced to do so due to events beyond your control.
Although I am definitely a fan of "homework" and individual-guided learning, I would really like to put in a case for getting some (good - not from those guys above, again! ) professional instruction.... BTW, I do best with self teaching (reading reading reading) and practice. I can now put 10 rounds within a 3" circle at 15 feet, I can take down my glock and put back together in less than 1 minute, I am working on the wonderful exercises shown in this doc: http://wp2.pikecosheriff.com/wp-content ... iculum.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
While it's far from impossible to learn to shoot by yourself, I can tell you from personal experience that you'll incur a high cost by doing so: time - both that of the range time as well as your valuable personal time - as well as, in today's economy and political climate, ammo, are tremendously expensive, and self-guided learning has the disadvantage of requiring a fair amount of both.
I'm not a great shot, but I can hold my own. My first year of shooting, 2011-2012, I probably put around 40k rounds downrange, the vast majority of it in self-guided practice. I can tell you honestly that half of that was probably just wasted, simply because I didn't know better and there was no one beside me to tell me "that's enough, you're doing it wrong."
With someone to help guide you - be it a paid professional or a friend who REALLY knows what he/she is talking about - you can cut your learning curve drastically, saving both time as well as ammo.
Additionally, you'll also get that most valuable of feedback: real-time.
I'll give you a concrete example:
http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/t ... tg_100306/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The grip is arguably one of the more important components of the fundamentals of pistol marksmanship. It's discussed at-length by both new as well as experienced shooters (as in this DefensiveCarry.com thread: http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/def ... gment.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ).
In the Handguns article, several different shooters - top shooters with titles that actually testify to their ability to shoot - all present slight variations on the same theme. It took me literally a year to work through that article, doing my due-diligence, and it wasn't until I looked at D.R.Middlebrooks' presentation on DC.com as well as having stumbled on surfssd's channel on YouTube that I actually was able to consolidate everything that I'd been reading/watching, and to develop what truly works for me.
Even then, it took sessions with two separate instructors/schools to really be able to internalize and ingrain the methods necessary to execute that perfect shot and literally put rounds on top of rounds.
And even now, I'm working on what a very astute instructor criticized me on in a class this past summer. Something that I likely would only have stumbled upon YEARS down the line, had it not been for his intervention.
And let me tell you, it's more than doubly as hard to break a bad habit than it was to learn it right to begin with.
I'm a fairly new shooter (prior to November of 2010, I literally maybe put 100 rounds downrange over the course of my then 36 years on this blessed planet. Maybe a fun range-day with "the guys" every year or even two - as a matter of fact, prior to my purchase of my first firearm in November, 2010, the last time I'd been out to the range was some time in 2002-2003.
In being so new and having gotten help from friends early, I was able to assimilate, internalize, and ingrain a lot of GOOD habits very, very early. These habits and processes still serve me well even to this day. Safety, the modern iso. stance/presentation, the thumbs-forward grip. These were all early "gifts" to me from various friends and acquaintances, and I am forever grateful for their advice and guidance, and I try to "pay it forward" by helping new shooters, myself.
But they were not perfect - no human is. And somewhere along the way, I picked up some of their bad habits (which they had at the time they taught me, but may no longer have now; for they, too, have grown as shooters, themselves) as well as formed bad habits of my own simply because "I did not know what I did not know."
As one newer shooter to another, as someone who also believes in the importance of doing one's dues with homework, I sincerely implore you to seek help from those who know better, sooner rather than later.
Self-taught is far from impossible, but it's hard, very hard - and in this case, expensive, too.
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
I just got back from taking a nap..Now I can FINISH reading Allens post..... A good one at that..
Life is full of God given coincidences..
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Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
^ Glad to have helped you get some rest!
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
The advise that helped me to be comfortable with condition 1 carry was to carry with a snap cap in the chamber around all day at home and see at the end of the day if the trigger had ever inadvertently been pulled. Then I upgraded to a live round and after a couple of days I was confident to carry that way.
A good holster should cover the trigger guard. A Glock's design and internal safeties make it impossible to go off on it's own unless the trigger is pulled. Protect the trigger guard with a good holster, practice safe gun handling and don't let yourself become complacent any time the gun is out of the holster and you should be fine.
Also be extra careful when re-holstering that nothing gets inside the trigger guard like a shirt tail or whatnot.
A good holster should cover the trigger guard. A Glock's design and internal safeties make it impossible to go off on it's own unless the trigger is pulled. Protect the trigger guard with a good holster, practice safe gun handling and don't let yourself become complacent any time the gun is out of the holster and you should be fine.
Also be extra careful when re-holstering that nothing gets inside the trigger guard like a shirt tail or whatnot.
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
Very good advice, although the snap cap isn't really needed, the gun isn't going to fire anyway. I know when I first started carrying, it was with a 1911 (cocked and locked) and that just plain looked dangerous. As recommended, I carried empty in the house for a few days and the trigger never fell on it's own...well, never fell period.Klingon00 wrote:The advise that helped me to be comfortable with condition 1 carry was to carry with a snap cap in the chamber around all day at home and see at the end of the day if the trigger had ever inadvertently been pulled.
^^^this! Yes, some accidental discharges are goofus fingers on the trigger but I believe many are caused by shirt tails, etc.Also be extra careful when re-holstering that nothing gets inside the trigger guard like a shirt tail or whatnot.
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
^ And it can even include an old, worn (or damaged) holster:
http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firea ... ischarges/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firea ... ischarges/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Accidental Discharge
The trusty, comfortable, leather holster I had been using for a year and two weeks had done what a baseball glove does after lots of use; It got soft. This particular holster carries the pistol outside the waistband, but inside the belt. The belt slides through slots in the outer side of the holster.
The problem stemmed from the leather on the inner side of the holster getting soft. A crease formed, which eventually was large enough to extend beyond the trigger. Manipulate the gun in just the wrong manner and this crease is no different than a finger on the trigger. Boom!
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
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Re: pre-press trigger or not to holster?
We need to know more about these negligant instructers!
Abandon ye all HOPE!