What if... ??? #3

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Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

Ok, if I'm not allowed to play the dog card...

As we learned down at TDI, the safest thing to do is to order the intruder out of the house. Having him run like Hell is safer than trying to holdhim for police and risking the tables might somehow turn.

Sure he will probably victimize someone else, but that is frankly not your problem. That's the job for the police, and the job of future victims to be as prepared as you are.
Daniel White
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We must carry arms because we value our lives and those of our loved ones, because we will not be dealt with by force or threat of force, and do not live at the pleasure and discretion of the lawless. - Jeff Snyder
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Post by LSC »

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Last edited by LSC on Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by GWC »

IS,

That's a good one. If I play the dog card, the dogs take away the fudgecicle and chase him out of the house. I yell "shut up" at the dogs and go back to sleep.

If the dogs aren't there, That fudgecicle has been in there a long time. I'll sit back and watch him slowly die from food poisoning.
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Post by impcmonk »

Daniel wrote:Sure he will probably victimize someone else, but that is frankly not your problem. That's the job for the police, and the job of future victims to be as prepared as you are.
When you obtain your license aren't you taking a responsible stand for your and others safety? So you let him go and he goes to the next home and kills a mother and her young children. Something that could of been prevented if you took a stand to take a criminal off the street. The problem with society today is that nobody looks out for the safety of others. For you to say that it's "not your problem" just adds to the problem. I, personally, couldn't live with the guilt if I let that guy go and he killed someone else. Besides that, how many burglars are actually caught in comparison to how many breakins occur. Not that many! So by getting your license or even purchasing a firearm you are taking a pro-active stand.

I'm kind of concerned that TDI would actually tell someone this. To offer defensive classes and then teach this liberal view is really sickening. I'm not raggin on you Daniel, but this sort of goes against some of the things that OFCC stands for. We can send troops to help out those that can't help themselves but won't help a neighbor that cant help themself.
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Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

Your job is to protect yourself. Capturing bad guys is a job best left to the trained professionals.

Just because you disagree with that idea doesn't mean that those who do are liberals and "contributing to the problem."
Daniel White
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We must carry arms because we value our lives and those of our loved ones, because we will not be dealt with by force or threat of force, and do not live at the pleasure and discretion of the lawless. - Jeff Snyder
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Post by TunnelRat »

impcmonk wrote:When you obtain your license aren't you taking a responsible stand for your and others safety?
I take responsibility for myself and my family. If we all did that, the police would have a much easier job.

That mother next door with her young children needs to take responsibility for herself and her family, too. She cannot rely on me or the police to be there when trouble comes.

Besides, after having a confrontation with an armed householder, I doubt that our midnight visitor is gonna be doing a whole lot of housebreaking for a coupla days.

[I have taken men prisoner before. It is not nearly so easy as it sounds.]
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Post by impcmonk »

tommcnaughton wrote:Besides, after having a confrontation with an armed householder, I doubt that our midnight visitor is gonna be doing a whole lot of housebreaking for a coupla days.

[I have taken men prisoner before. It is not nearly so easy as it sounds.]
Here in Columbus it happens more than you know. I work the South side of Columbus where a lot of career criminals live (and work). We also have one of the largest populations of Somalis in the country (in Columbus in general). This has cause a rise in violent crime. I've also done raids on crackhouses and crackheads will still come in while we are searching for contraban. You think a crackhead will stop because he ran into a homeowner that just let him go? Not a chance.
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I don't think you *can* hold anyone

Post by MySQLQuery »

IANAL, but, I don't think you can lawfully hold the goblin, as so many have mentioned, unless of course, you're an officer/etc... the better course would be to order him out of the house, and call the cops, once you've come to the decision that he's not a threat to your life, or well-being.... of course, a lot of times, one loses track of time, or thing are overlooked, etc :)

Code: Select all

ORC 2905.03. Unlawful restraint.
(A)  No person, without privilege to do so, shall knowingly restrain another of his liberty. 
(B)  Whoever violates this section is guilty of unlawful restraint, a misdemeanor of the third degree. 
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Post by MySQLQuery »

OR, perhaps you can.... reasearch before posting is good, apparently ;]

Code: Select all

§ 2935.06. Duty of private person making arrest.
A private person who has made an arrest pursuant to section 2935.04 of the Revised Code or detention pursuant to section 2935.041 [2935.04.1] of the Revised Code shall forthwith take the person arrested before the most convenient judge or clerk of a court of record or before a magistrate, or deliver such person to an officer authorized to execute criminal warrants who shall, without unnecessary delay, take such person before the court or magistrate having jurisdiction of the offense. The officer may, but if he does not, the private person shall file or cause to be filed in such court or before such magistrate an affidavit stating the offense for which the person was arrested.  
and, the referred-to laws:

Code: Select all

§ 2935.04. When any person may arrest.
When a felony has been committed, or there is reasonable ground to believe that a felony has been committed, any person without a warrant may arrest another whom he has reasonable cause to believe is guilty of the offense, and detain him until a warrant can be obtained.  
The other one, (2935.041) pertains mostly to shoplifters, and theater-hoppers, I'm not gonna quote that 2 pager, because it's not really relevant ;]
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Post by NavyChief »

Well, lot's of good responses. Several I hadn't anticipated. Of course, the very best, most correct answers are those that I eliminated from competition from the get-go. For example, there is no doubt this:
astracapt wrote:...I think to do anything other than grab my gun and flashlight, set myself up in the defensive position I have already thought out for my bedroom, and call 911 is foolhardy.
...is absolutely the best course of action. For exactly the reasons astracapt cited in the rest of that paragraph.


I also like this, but again, it's outside the bounds of the original scenario:
ArcherAce wrote:I'd have him pick up the phone with one hand and dial 911. (I've never seen a kitchen without a phone) The way my kitchen is I couldn't cover him, watch all three entrances to the kitchen, and dial a phone.
...BTW, my kitchen has no phone. I still sort of like the notion of having the goblin make the 911 call though - rather appeals to my sense of irony. But I'm not sure I like leaving him that much mobility.


A couple people mentioned their dogs. I didn't specifically exclude the possibility of dogs in the initial scenario, but these are still sort of outside the parameters. I still like them.
Daniel wrote:I'd never even get that far. As soon as my bedroom door opened my two dogs would be eating him.
Jronjakoh wrote:Don't think he would even get into the house without my pup yapping his head off.



I'd never even considered this:
Daniel wrote:As we learned down at TDI, the safest thing to do is to order the intruder out of the house. Having him run like Hell is safer than trying to hold him for police and risking the tables might somehow turn.
...despite what a few remarked, this is not really a bad answer at all. And, in fact, sort of points out where I was going with this scenario. Just what do you do with a goblin who is (for the moment, at least) complying with your "Stop or I'll shoot" command?

Taking up with our goblin apparently about to wet his pants, let's look at what we can do. We'll assume we're not sending him packing (I'm not, anyway). We have to get to a phone, but we don't dare break our line of sight on him. So, you have to get him to "follow" you. You can (and should) order him to interlock his fingers and place his hands on top of his head. There are two ways to go from here. 1) Have him turn around and back toward the sound of your voice, or; 2) Have him get on his knees and "knee-walk" toward you as you back to the phone. (I personally favor this as having him on his knees even further reduces his ability to "bolt.") The instant you can reach the phone, order goblin face-down spread-eagle palms-up on the floor and tell him to turn his face away from you. Don't forget to give 911 a very accurate description of you. Some may think this'd be a great time to cuff him or otherwise restrain him with zip-ties or the like. I really don't recommend it unless you happen to teach "speed-cuffing" to police. Most LE instructors will tell you the most dangerous phase of prisoner restraint is putting the second cuff on, and taking the first one off - there are a variety of reasons for this I won't go into here. Suffice it to say even experienced "hand-cuffers" try to avoid doing it without a partner.
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
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Post by charles1198 »

I'd probably also order him to the floor and call 911. Then, I'd have a talk with him and explain that he moves, I'd probably feel threatened enough to shoot (Is his going for a gun or the fudgesicle? Is he armed? Are there others waiting for his signal to enter?). I don't want to shoot him, he doesn't want to be shot. I'm not holding him there, it's a mutual thing. :D When the cavalry arrives, they can arrest him. I'd sure as heck not let him leave to regroup with his buddies that are waiting outside or to retrieve the gun he left in the car when he got the munchies!
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Post by Jronjakoh »

So according to those ordinance stated,I can NOT legally make him lie down on the floor and cover him till the PD arrives?????
Specially after he illegally broke in to my house.
HELL<Chew him up Cooper!!!!!! :evil:
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NavyChief
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Post by NavyChief »

Jronjakoh wrote:...I can NOT legally make him lie down on the floor and cover him till the PD arrives?
Sure ya' can. Look at MySQLQuery's later post citing ORC 2935.04 & 2935.06.
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
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Post by Jronjakoh »

Thnx Chief. Guess that is where the "Citizens Arrest' come in.
Unless he is still lieing there when the cops arrive and he has the goods in his possession.
Otherwise it is his word against mine.
Americans need not fear the federal government because they enjoy the advantage of being armed, which you possess over the people of almost every other nation. . James Madison.

What's in Your Wallet?

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proof

Post by Javelin Man »

Unless he is still lieing there when the cops arrive and he has the goods in his possession.
Otherwise it is his word against mine.
Of course, it is YOUR house in which he's been found. Adds a little more credence to your side of the story.
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