do I need re-sighting?

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dan_sayers
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do I need re-sighting?

Post by dan_sayers »

Got to take the demon child out for a spin. Not really a shoot. Just testing if it cycled before wearing it. Cycles great, which also speaks good of my ProMag that was near retirement; looks like the repairs were a success. First set of rounds burned quite hot and smoked a good deal. I'm assuming this is residual gun oil combusting. They were also very quiet. Like I was shooting a 22. Those were the Fiocchis. After I emptied what I was carrying, I shot two sets of my usual Remington UMC plinkers. They popper more like I'm accustomed to and next to no smoking like I'm accustomed.

There's a problem though. I've shared targets, so you all know that I can get near my target well enough and with this same model gun. But the demon child is consistently left. Is this a fault in the gun/slide/sights? Does it just need breaking in a bit more? Time was getting the best of me, so I only shot about 90 rounds to make sure she cycled fine. I DO remember my dad commenting that my earlier targets to low and to the left consistently. Which is the only reason I'd even consider it being a break-in factor. I know the Thunder 380 has adjustable rear sights, but I'm assuming that's just up and down.

Close up pics of gun and/or scans of today's targets available upon request (still pressed for time a bit; just figured I'd post this to collect any replies while I'm gone).
GWC
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Post by GWC »

Try shooting a small group from a rested position. Most ranges have some sort of rest that you can put a small sandbag on to steady the gun for testing purposes. If it still prints to the left, you may need to adjust your sights. Most rear sights can be drift adjusted. You actually move the sight one way or another in the dovetail.

It is also possible that this has something to do with the way you grip the pistol or even your trigger stroke. But since its not happenning with the other pistol that's probably not it.
Buckshot
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Post by Buckshot »

Dan,

I don't have a Bersa, so I doin't know how the sights work on them.

You seem to indicate that you have elevation adjustment on the sight from what you are saying (move up and down)?

Windage correction (left and right) is much more common to find that elevation adjustment, so if you have elevation adjustment I am fairly sure that you have windage adjustment also.

Buckshot
rhwiley
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Post by rhwiley »

I had this happen to me at first with my 1911 Officers model. The only reason I'm sharing this, is because it really helped me realize what I was doing, and it might help you as well.

I took the 1911 to the Powder Room in Powell thinking I should have it drifted to how I shoot. I mean I came within 2 inches of the bull, but I was consistently to the left.

After they watched me line up for a shot, they noticed the problem. It's all in the position of your trigger finger against the trigger.

If your shooting right-handed, and you put too much of your finger against the trigger, you can pull the shot to the right.

Likewise, too little finger against the trigger will push to the left.

It's not too bad at close range, but it can mean a hit/miss from greater distances. Also, strangely enough, I didn't have the problem on my 5-inch 1911, but it only showed up on the 3 1/2-inch model.
Harlie
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Sights?

Post by Harlie »

A consistant low left can reflect a "Milking" of the handgun, which refers to squeezing the whole hand during the action of pulling the trigger. This can be magnfied by a stout trigger pull or a bad habit. Have some one else shoot your handgun before making any radical sight adjustments or modifications. Is a tough habit to over come, as I well know.
Keep a keen mind, eye and edge.
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dan_sayers
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Post by dan_sayers »

Well as GWC pointed out, I have two of the same gun. I shoot the other quite well when I'm taking my time (and even when I'm not). I also have snap caps and that helped me to learn where with my trigger finger to pull. For me, the tip keeps them lined up. Every where else on my finger, and my pull shuddered slightly. That's why I'm quick to toss out those possibilities.

BUT I'm not so sure I'd believe it to be a breaking in thing either. My father said my earlier shooting with my first gun were left and he's right. I assumed my own shot improved. Frankly, I can't visualize how breaking in a gun would affect its accuracy at all.

Which is why I jumped to the sights. I'm going shooting Monday, but it was to bust the cherry of another since he's never shot before. I'd rather devote my time and energy into making sure he gets the most out of it than as an op to get my new one settled in and/or get to the bottom of this.

Oh, bother.
Petrovich
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Post by Petrovich »

dan_sayers wrote:Frankly, I can't visualize how breaking in a gun would affect its accuracy at all.
It can have a lot of influence.

Consider the fact that the component parts of a pistol are manufactured out out of competely different pieces of metal, from competely different 'molds' on entirely different machines, by separate individuals.

Then those pieces are assembled with all their little sharp edges. They need time to get to know each other. They must rub against each other and get comfortable together.

The LAST thing you want to do to a new gun is monkey around with the sights. Shoot the thing first. Do also as was suggested higher up in the thread. Shoot sitting down with your hand and the pistol well stabilized on a sandbag. Fire at a paper target much like you'd fire a rifle with proper breathing and let the round off with a gentle squeeze of the trigger.

Only then can you ascertain if your sights need adjusted. I can tell you for a fact that of all the handguns I own with nonadjustable sights I have drifted only one rear sight and that was on a springfield milspec 1911. Whoever installed those sights at the armory did not drift them in to the center. All I did was finish pushing it over to the center witness mark and the gun shot perfect.
dan_sayers
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Post by dan_sayers »

I can't tell what's going on. Last night, it started off a bit left and scattered. Not unlike my first gun started off. Then it started getting more concentrated. The final set though seemed a bit more to the left. I was in the process of initiating somebody else, so I didn't too much bother with it. Will have to give it more effort sometime soon.
dan_sayers
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Post by dan_sayers »

Update: It would appear it DID just need broken in. Shot this at about 300 rounds through it: Click me. Tightest shooting I've ever done too, and at my new club. AND despite the slide resisting to be put back on the gun after separation, it no longer fights. Just needed to be broken in. Glad my first one didn't take all that or else I might not've been as impressed!
Shadow
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Post by Shadow »

You worry too much about accuracy.

If you can't shoot good... Well... Shoot a lot!

Carry some extra mags. A box or two of extra ammo.

And remember, a smoke screen is a tactical advantage! Use funky powder!

Shadow
dan_sayers
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Post by dan_sayers »

I shoot well enough for my level.

I'm at a loss. It always seems an inch off. A friend asked me what was so sure about it, so I loaded my first gun. First shot was bullseye. The rest were centered well enough. Also, to look at the sights from the top, they do seem ever so slightly different. I would like to take them in and see what the gunsmith says. Hate to disarm for it, but what can you do.

And worry not. I shoot plenty. Only owned a gun for 2 months now and have put about 1,700 through them.
"Moderation in the defense of liberty is no virtue." - Ann Coulter
"Liberalism is part of a religious disorder that demands a belief that life is controllable." - Ann Coulter
By their fruits ye shall know them.
kurt 10/22
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Post by kurt 10/22 »

I do'nt know what distance you are shooting at, but from the picture in the previous post, if its from more than ten feet , off hand, with that short barrelled bersa, in .380, I'd say BG is DOA. Remember this is not a target pistol, it is a self defense weapon. If you want sub MOA groups get a target pistol, if you want to save your life, I 'd say your doing just fine, do'nt expect more accuracy than the cartridge, and pistol configuration can deliver, some are inherantly less accurate than others. If it goes bang every time you pull the trigger, and you shoot groups like that you got no worries.
Never take a knife to a gunfight.
dan_sayers
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Post by dan_sayers »

I REALLY hope this post doesn't come off as anything short of appreciative, but don't forget that I have two of the exact same gun. A small basis for comparison, but still. I agree that I shoot well with both. Just there seems to be a distinct pattern. Original gun shoots straight, demon child is almost always 1 inch left at 21 feet. I guess the main reason I'm exhibiting any concern at all is not only because my first gun left nothing to be desired, but also because these are the guns I'm using to not only defend myself, but get comfy with guns in general. If one IS in fact off, I'd like it corrected before I get too used to it being that way... if that makes any sense.
"Moderation in the defense of liberty is no virtue." - Ann Coulter
"Liberalism is part of a religious disorder that demands a belief that life is controllable." - Ann Coulter
By their fruits ye shall know them.
Wayne
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Post by Wayne »

Dan if you can keep all of your shots on a paper plate at 7 yards while shooting off hand the BG is going to be toast,but I hear counter tops are a little tougher. :)
Never Have So Many Owed So Much To So Few.
dan_sayers
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Post by dan_sayers »

Wayne wrote:Dan if you can keep all of your shots on a paper plate at 7 yards while shooting off hand the BG is going to be toast,but I hear counter tops are a little tougher. :)
:P

Ironically, the countertop WAS shot off-handed.
"Moderation in the defense of liberty is no virtue." - Ann Coulter
"Liberalism is part of a religious disorder that demands a belief that life is controllable." - Ann Coulter
By their fruits ye shall know them.
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