9mm ammo difference explanation?

[CurtInOhio]

Ok, I'll admit I'm new to all this stuff, as of April this year. For my practice ammo, I just get FMJ 9mm stuff from Walmart, etc. But now I'm looking at Doubletap Ammo for 9mm, and, like lots of other defense ammo, it comes in 115, 127 and 145 grain. What are the actual differences? I've seen the numbers, but why choose one of the other? I'm one of those guys that needs to know the details to make my decision, not just be told to 'get this one'. Thanks for any help.

[Petrovich]

Ok, I'll admit I'm new to all this stuff, as of April this year. For my practice ammo, I just get FMJ 9mm stuff from Walmart, etc. But now I'm looking at Doubletap Ammo for 9mm, and, like lots of other defense ammo, it comes in 115, 127 and 145 grain. What are the actual differences? I've seen the numbers, but why choose one of the other? I'm one of those guys that needs to know the details to make my decision, not just be told to 'get this one'. Thanks for any help.

There are probably several things to think about.

First off, remember that 115gr is kinda the 'standard' weight for 9mm parabellum....not that there really is such a thing as a standard bullet weight. Just bear in mind that is probably the most common weight slug used and NATO specs are 115gr. My guess is 115gr is the most efficient ballistically and is probably considered the most versatile.

127gr. and 145gr, being heavier, are going to travel slower, and have a shorter range; however within their limits they will have a higher/more sustained momentum after acceleration and deliver more energy into the target respectively. A bullet that is decellerating; that is being one that has peaked in speed and is now beginning to slow down; is actually the more devastating.

Conventional wisdom is shifting it seems. Before, slow and heavy were consider the best compromises. Now, maybe the best compromise is fast, lighter and hollow pointed. Obviously fast, big AND hollow pointed is probably ideal.

I am seeing a lot of ballistic tip bullets. These are hollow slugs with a polymer tip. Used to be you only saw these in rifle cartridges but now they are showing up in pistol cartridges. With these, fast is better.

I am sure others on here can explain it better and add/clarify to what I am trying to explain.

[ballistic]

Ok, I'll admit I'm new to all this stuff, as of April this year. For my practice ammo, I just get FMJ 9mm stuff from Walmart, etc. But now I'm looking at Doubletap Ammo for 9mm, and, like lots of other defense ammo, it comes in 115, 127 and 145 grain. What are the actual differences? I've seen the numbers, but why choose one of the other? I'm one of those guys that needs to know the details to make my decision, not just be told to 'get this one'. Thanks for any help.

Your seemingly innocent concerns open up HUGE cans of worms which even I, prior to a couple of years ago, couldn't even imagine existed. An adequate treatment of your questions would go well beyond the time and space constraints of this forum. In deference to the literal whirlwind of expected responses, I'll limit myself to two issues: (1) In choosing a defensive load no one person or theory has all the answers. Everyone has a part of the truth, but no one has the whole truth. (I'll probably get both barrels from the Fackler-IWBA contingent on this.) (2) For defensive purposes hollowpoint ammo is preferable to non-hollowpoint ammo. Hollowpoint ammo, because it expands (mushrooms) in tissue, tends to stay in the body. Non-hollowpoint ammo tends to go through and exit the body, and may strike an innocent third party. Go with a hollowpoint whatever you choose (Clint Smith and other hardballers notwithstanding). From here on in, you're on your own.

[BKVic]

Ok, I'll admit I'm new to all this stuff, as of April this year. For my practice ammo, I just get FMJ 9mm stuff from Walmart, etc. But now I'm looking at Doubletap Ammo for 9mm, and, like lots of other defense ammo, it comes in 115, 127 and 145 grain. What are the actual differences? I've seen the numbers, but why choose one of the other? I'm one of those guys that needs to know the details to make my decision, not just be told to 'get this one'. Thanks for any help.

There are probably several things to think about.

First off, remember that 115gr is kinda the 'standard' weight for 9mm parabellum....not that there really is such a thing as a standard bullet weight. Just bear in mind that is probably the most common weight slug used and NATO specs are 115gr. My guess is 115gr is the most efficient ballistically and is probably considered the most versatile.

127gr. and 145gr, being heavier, are going to travel slower, and have a shorter range; however within their limits they will have a higher/more sustained momentum after acceleration and deliver more energy into the target respectively. A bullet that is decellerating; that is being one that has peaked in speed and is now beginning to slow down; is actually the more devastating.

Conventional wisdom is shifting it seems. Before, slow and heavy were consider the best compromises. Now, maybe the best compromise is fast, lighter and hollow pointed. Obviously fast, big AND hollow pointed is probably ideal.

I am seeing a lot of ballistic tip bullets. These are hollow slugs with a polymer tip. Used to be you only saw these in rifle cartridges but now they are showing up in pistol cartridges. With these, fast is better.

I am sure others on here can explain it better and add/clarify to what I am trying to explain.

Sorry PFG but the Nato Spec ammo that the US uses is M882 and its 124gr. not 115. Ive read that other countries use different weights for their Nato spec ammo but I dont know why? I thought the whole idea behind the Nato Spec was so we would all be shooting the same ammo if a big war broke out.


BKVic

[CurtInOhio]

... (1) In choosing a defensive load no one person or theory has all the answers. Everyone has a part of the truth, but no one has the whole truth. (I'll probably get both barrels from the Fackler-IWBA contingent on this.) ...

I figure if I can get more info, there's a level where it's not that big of a deal to have a difference... meaning the tradeoffs may make the difference moot, so picking any of a certain set will lead to desired results.

And it was meant to be a basically innocent post... not trying to start any riots... I guess I should have worded it differently... more along the lines of:

If you use 9mm, why do you choose the defense round weight you choose?

[ballistic]

... (1) In choosing a defensive load no one person or theory has all the answers. Everyone has a part of the truth, but no one has the whole truth. (I'll probably get both barrels from the Fackler-IWBA contingent on this.) ...

I figure if I can get more info, there's a level where it's not that big of a deal to have a difference... meaning the tradeoffs may make the difference moot, so picking any of a certain set will lead to desired results.

And it was meant to be a basically innocent post... not trying to start any riots... I guess I should have worded it differently... more along the lines of:

If you use 9mm, why do you choose the defense round weight you choose?

I understood it to be an honest question. I was trying to deflect any harsh responses in advance and bow out gracefully. For myself I use Federal Classic 9BP 115 gr. JHP because (1) it's reliable, meaning it doesn't fail to go POP!, (2) it's accurate in my gun (Sig 228), (3) the bullet is designed to go so far and no further (i.e., in the body) and (4) it's affordable. Note I mentioned cost last in the hierarchy of importance. I can afford more exotic and expensive loads, but I like this one.

[Redhorse]

Go with a hollowpoint whatever you choose

If it will feed consistantly in your gun!!




Hope I don't step on any toes here...but IMHO your best bet is to test several different rounds. Weight/grains, manufacturer, FMJ/HP, hand loads, factory loads, Etc...and determine which preforms the best in your weapon. Once you've found the ammo that is most accurate and reliable in your weapon USE THAT

We could go on and on about trajectory, kinetic energy transfer, penetration, etc...but it all boils down to reliability. I have known people who continually put up with a malfunctioning firearm because they were convinced by someone that they "have to use this ammo 'cause it's the best". When they already had a load that preformed great.


Find out what your weapon likes to eat and FEED IT THOSE

If your weapon preforms well with multiple loads then by all means pick the one that will apply to the majority of the situations you foresee yourself using it in.

No, it might not be the best weight bullet for the particular scenario you find yourself in...but who can say what the scenario IS GONNA BE

Heavier, slower bullets transfer more energy to the target and sometimes stay in (not always). Lighter, faster bullets blow holes through them and keep going (not always).

Now when your done playing with that 9MM toy...put it away and go buy a real gun in .45 ACP.

[CurtInOhio]

Now when your done playing with that 9MM toy...put it away and go buy a real gun in .45 ACP.

I just had a discussion about the .45 with a guy I work with.. he said what he likes about it is that he can shoot and and watch the bullet on its way to the target.

I thought about the SW99 in .45, but decided on 9mm for a variety of reasons. It wasn't on a whim, but it starts to be one of those things that if I can get in a statistically similar range, I can take my pick, if you know what I mean... with the right ammo, several different calibers provide statistically similar results.

And, yes, I knew you were joking... but it's still something I consider. I don't know that the .40 s&w is statistically really any better than 9mm, so I didn't want the extra expense as well as extra recoil... this way, if need be, my wife can pick it up and shoot my p99... though she doesn't care to, esp with carry loads in it. For me, FMJs are fun plinkers... and a way to get better all around. I kind of feel like I need to stick with it for my carry gun for a while, as I really do like the gun, and I'm getting more and more confident with it.

[AmericanGunner]

Now when your done playing with that 9MM toy...put it away and go buy a real gun in .45 ACP.

I just had a discussion about the .45 with a guy I work with.. he said what he likes about it is that he can shoot and and watch the bullet on its way to the target.

I thought about the SW99 in .45, but decided on 9mm for a variety of reasons. It wasn't on a whim, but it starts to be one of those things that if I can get in a statistically similar range, I can take my pick, if you know what I mean... with the right ammo, several different calibers provide statistically similar results.

And, yes, I knew you were joking... but it's still something I consider. I don't know that the .40 s&w is statistically really any better than 9mm, so I didn't want the extra expense as well as extra recoil... this way, if need be, my wife can pick it up and shoot my p99... though she doesn't care to, esp with carry loads in it. For me, FMJs are fun plinkers... and a way to get better all around. I kind of feel like I need to stick with it for my carry gun for a while, as I really do like the gun, and I'm getting more and more confident with it.

IMO the biggest mistake new shooters make is constantly changing shooting platforms, the best way to learn how to shoot is to pick a gun and shoot the heck out of it when you become highly proficient and comfortable with one platform then consider buying a new weapon.

Personally I think the gun you have is a excellent choice I currently carry a Glock 30 and I am giving serious consideration to buying a 99 or a G19 due to the obvious ammo costs, this is also another consideration buy a caliber of gun you can afford to shoot often this was the mistake I made and regret making.

[TunnelRat]

Ok, I'll admit I'm new to all this stuff, as of April this year. For my practice ammo, I just get FMJ 9mm stuff from Walmart, etc. But now I'm looking at Doubletap Ammo for 9mm, and, like lots of other defense ammo, it comes in 115, 127 and 145 grain. What are the actual differences? I've seen the numbers, but why choose one of the other? I'm one of those guys that needs to know the details to make my decision, not just be told to 'get this one'. Thanks for any help.

Curt,

You may find it enlightening to do a google search for "9mm" and "ballistics". There are several truckloads of information available on the internet. For your encouragement you will find a lot of it (a LOT of it!) to be contradicting.

There are two mains schools of thought about handgun ammo: 1) light and fast; 2) heavy and slow.

Marhall and Sanow, a coupla guys outa Detroit, have written a book and many magazine articles singing the praises of light, fast bullets. They'd like you to use 115 grain +P, jacketed hollow point loads. Mas Ayoob, a well known and largely well respected gun writer and trainer, pretty much goes along with their theory. They argue that a high speed bullet sends a shock wave through its target and has a sort of "energy dump" that helps to incapacitate the victim. They like to produce statistics about "One Shot Stops".

On the other side you'll find a Dr. Fackler and the International Wound Ballistics Association. They have come into prominence since the FBI had a now infamous shootout in Miami in which the light, fast bullets they were using failed to stop a coupla bad guys and wound up getting several agents killed.

Fackler and those who work with him contend that there is no evidence that a handgun bullet can produce enough "energy dump" or shock wave to have any sort of effect on a target. They believe that the only thing that's gonna stop your bad guy (outside of a hit to the central nervous system) is damage to tissue, major organs, and blood loss. They are scientists who do a lot of work with stuff called "ballistic gelatin". They'd like you to use the heaviest possible jacketed hollow point loading for any given caliber. For 9mm that would be 147 grains.

The Fackler bunch contends (and fairly well proves...) that Marshall and Sanow are quacks and frauds who have cooked their data to get the results they want. Marshall and Sanow fans insist that Fackler needs to get out of the laboratory and examine the "real" street results.

Confused yet? Welcome to the big leagues.

By and large any ammunition produced by a major American manufacturer is gonna do the job for you. Find a load you like that goes bang every time. Consider recoil, muzzle flash, and especially feed reliability.

Don't worry too much about overpenetration. Figure that at least 75% of all shots fired in a gunfight will miss their target. Why worry about a bullet going through a bad guy and breaking windows down the street when most of your shots have broken those windows already...?

For the most part, 9mm ammo is cheap. So buy a bunch and practise with it.

[Javelin Man]

I just had a discussion about the .45 with a guy I work with.. he said what he likes about it is that he can shoot and and watch the bullet on its way to the target.

I once shot at a target with a .45 and saw I was going to miss, so I ran down range and moved the target into place!

There are some that state a 9mm handgun should never be fed 147 gr. bullets. I don't subscribe entirely to that theory, but I don't use that weight; I prefer 115 gr. with the occasional 124 gr. Hornady XTP.

The biggest factor is if it works in your gun and is reasonably accurate. In the heat of the moment, you're not going to worry about scoring a 10, but you'd at least like ammo that is consistently on the paper.

If you find yourself needing ammuniton to penetrate car windows and doors, call a timeout and sprint home for your AK. I'm sure everyone will wait for your return.

I do recommend hollowpoints, however. It will penetrate enough to do lots of damage. The exception is if you are depending on .32's and then the general rule of thumb is FMJ for penetration.

Good luck making your decision.

[Redhorse]

9MM is a very popular caliber, ammo is readily available, and inexpensive. I need to own one myself.

Just went to the gun store today and held that Para Ordinance Warthog in my hands though....OOOH BABY!

Put one of those little Kel-Tec's in my hands too. I'm seeing why everybody is talking about those for a BUG. That .380 would be a perfect pocket pistol.


Might be a while before I end up eith a 9MM...

[Mad Duck]

The FBI Load was the 147 Hydra Shok (+P, I believe)
But make sure your gun will feed it.
One of my Instructors (Georg) really likes the aquila IQ rds.
they work great in his Glock, but my HI Power choked 18 out of 20 rds., I went back to the Feds.

[CurtInOhio]

MD, my wife and I are trying to determine the best time to come out... what days are best for you?

I've tried about 5 different rounds so far, different weights and brands, etc.... one thing I like about my P99 is it doesn't seem to hiccup on anything at all.

[Petrovich]

Sorry PFG but the Nato Spec ammo that the US uses is M882 and its 124gr. not 115. Ive read that other countries use different weights for their Nato spec ammo but I dont know why? I thought the whole idea behind the Nato Spec was so we would all be shooting the same ammo if a big war broke out.


BKVic

Oops.....I shoulda double checked that. Thanks.

Now when your done playing with that 9MM toy...put it away and go buy a real gun in .45 ACP.

I just had a discussion about the .45 with a guy I work with.. he said what he likes about it is that he can shoot and and watch the bullet on its way to the target.

If the sun is bright, the bullets are shiny copper jackets and I'm standing off to the the side of the shooter I can see the bullet at the instant it leaves the barrel of a .45. But I have NEVER had eyes good enough to watch one travel to the target.

9MM is a very popular caliber, ammo is readily available, and inexpensive. I need to own one myself.

Just went to the gun store today and held that Para Ordinance Warthog in my hands though....OOOH BABY!

Put one of those little Kel-Tec's in my hands too. I'm seeing why everybody is talking about those for a BUG. That .380 would be a perfect pocket pistol.


Might be a while before I end up eith a 9MM...

Everybody needs a 9mm...if for no other reason that as a practice gun.