Thoughts on the Five seveN?

Glock and dagger · Post by **Glock and dagger** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:46 pm

Hey, I figure I would chime in with my own question on firearms.

An interesting cartridge, in the fact that it can penetrate body armor (LE only). Would I carry it for self-defense? I doubt it.

I wonder if Glock is going to build its own 5.7.

JJones · Post by **JJones** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:05 pm

Ooo it can penetrate a vest when you use the special ammo which you are not allow to sell anymore...

So what. So will a 9mm, .357Mag, .22LR, .357 sig, 10MM, etc. when used with the right ammo. let alone a simple bow and arrow.

Personally I think it is a neat little gun, how ever it has the ballistics of a .22 win mag. for the size you are better off with a larger more powerful, and more economical round.

Jacques.

Brian_Horton · Post by **Brian_Horton** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:43 pm

It is a niche round. I friend of mine used to own one. He sold it and about $400 of "bad" ammo that he bought prior to the ban for a big profit and bought himself and STI Edge. I don't think it is worth much for self defense. If you want a cheap high velocity handgun that shoots cheap ammo look at a CZ-52. It shoots 7.62x25mm. You can usually get the guns for around $100 and the ammo costs about the same as 9mm.

All the vest pentration stuff was really over hyped the anti's shot an old flack jacket (not a real bullet restistant vest) with one and then ran screaming into the night. Most service rounds stand a decent chance to penetrate a level II vest. (which is what the anti's were crying about) I believe every caliber than Jacques mentioned would penetrate a level IIA vest. Most LEO's wear at least a level II vest which is stronger. They also neglect to ever tell the public that just about any rifle round will penetrate the highest rated vests unless they are used in conjunction with a trauma plate designed to stop rifle rounds.

I have also often thought about getting a 9x25 Dillon barrel to play with in my Glock 20. 9x25 Dillon is a 10mm necked down to a 9mm bullet. Double Tap ammo loads a 95gr bullet that will exceed 2100 fps from a six inch barrel. I think the 125gr bullets are in the 1800 fps range and the 147gr bullets are in the 1600 fps range. It would make for a very effective caliber to match up with a compensated barrel for a race gun. All that extra gas pushing a light bullet would have very little recoil.

Glock and dagger · Post by **Glock and dagger** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:57 pm

Hey, what can I say, it was mentioned that it had that capability, so I figured it was a round that was, at least, worth mentioning.

Commonly available ammo will be stopped by most police jackets. Certain FMJ rounds will do the trick, but that is another topic.

7.62X25 ammo would be a sweet small package ammo choice (probably the only one I would select), but personally, I would rather take advantage of high capacity with such a small round. With the 8 shot capacity of CZ-52 mags, I'll wait to see if Glock or some other handgun maker creates a handgun that fires these rounds. No skin off my back if no one ever does.

JJones · Post by **JJones** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:34 pm

Glock and dagger wrote:Hey, what can I say, it was mentioned that it had that capability, so I figured it was a round that was, at least, worth mentioning.

Commonly available ammo will be stopped by most police jackets. Certain FMJ rounds will do the trick, but that is another topic.

That statement is wrong. This is where the Anti's place there claims using this incorrect assumtion. There is no such thing as a bullet proof vest. There are however bullet resistant vests, which come in different levels of protection. I can setup a demo using a level I or II-A vest, and Dan's Berreta. The 9mm Bullet will penetrate the vest. Everyone will be amazed and everyone will think that a 9mm is a cop killer bullet designed to defeat the police vests. However, if you go talk to the vest manufacturers, they will laugh at you and tell you that the vest performed exactly as designed.
Here is a basic rundown:

From Galls's site:http://www.galls.com/ballisticlevels.html

• Level I offers the most basic protection. It’s the same ballistic vest issued during the NIJ demonstration project of the 1970s.
• Level II-A offers greater protection, from lower velocity 9mm and 40 S&W ammunition.
• Level II offers even greater protection like higher velocity .357 Magnum and 9mm ammunition.
• Level III-A is the highest protection available for concealable, ballistic vests. Level III-A protects against most handguns and all the weapons from the previous three levels.

Guess what, once the bullet exceeds 1400fps or so, a Level III-A will fail to perform per it's designed.

There fore the Anti's have it backwards. It is not the Bullet which is designed to penetrate the vest, it is the Vest that is designed to not stop that bullet.

Jacques.

Comment to correct facts: My Beretta is a .40. - Cable

Glock and dagger · Post by **Glock and dagger** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:46 am

Ok, nit pick nit pick.

Come on, you're going to tell me some brilliant mind didn't think up a round that exceeds 1400 ft/sec velocity as a way to bust through Level IIIA vests. And one that has high capacity as a center stage, to boot?

I'm just having a hard time understanding what the big deal is in using a round that could conceivably go through a vest, but would basically ice pick its target on impact, and why this would be superior to using a larger, heavier projectile that may do the same, and not be as likely to cause an exit wound.

And just how many 9mm/.40SW rounds do any of us know of will reach velocities of 1400 ft/sec, anyhow?

Ring · Post by **Ring** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:28 am

glasers/magsafes/IQ Aguila and a few others.. can approch 2000 fps

BTW, you can reload for the 5/7 and load it back up as hot as the factory AP and training loads..

its uses a 223 bullet

Post by **TunnelRat** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:34 am

Brian_Horton wrote:Most service rounds stand a decent chance to penetrate a level II vest. (which is what the anti's were crying about) I believe every caliber than Jacques mentioned would penetrate a level II vest. Most LEO's wear at least a level IIA vest which is stronger.

You probably meant that the other way around: Level II vests are stronger than Level IIA.

Brian_Horton · Post by **Brian_Horton** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:44 am

Yep. I messed that one up. Time to hit the edit button.

JJones · Post by **JJones** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:02 pm

Glock and dagger wrote:Ok, nit pick nit pick.

Come on, you're going to tell me some brilliant mind didn't think up a round that exceeds 1400 ft/sec velocity as a way to bust through Level IIIA vests. And one that has high capacity as a center stage, to boot?

Except that they have had such load around well before anyone had defined what a level III-A vest was...(.38 super, 7.62x25,etc.) And that is only the pistol rounds...

Jacques.

jbp-ohio · Post by **jbp-ohio** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:13 am

My thoughts............ $$$$$$

Bad guys can wear a vest too. They are sold all over the internet. Just takes more money for the good ones. Might not be likely, but...........

Post by **TunnelRat** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:56 am

You can get a good quality vest for $300 or less. Lots of police officers have vests purchased for them by their departments. Vests are very personal (like underwear), so, when the officer leaves his department, the vest goes with him. Then, at the new department the officer gets issued a new vest. Thus the old one is up for sale on Ebay.

Heck, you can get a slightly used vest (that's only been shot two or three times ) for not a lot of money. Of course you have to wait for cooler weather (much cooler weather) before you can wear it.