Range Reports

[NavyChief]

Today was a reliability test. Inasmuch as this pistol was bought brand new, it has no track record. While some "accuracy" work was done, mainly I was just trying to get it to fail. I shot it left-handed, right-handed, sideways, upside down, limp-wristed; I held it so loose it practically flew out of my hand on firing. It would not malfunction. No stovepipe, no FTE, no feed problems – nothin'.

Now. Do I like it? I'm not sure. I sure don't dislike it. One day I'm gonna have to take it, the 19 and the XD all out and compare 'em. Right now I'm still leaning toward the 19 as my EDC. I do know I don't care for shooting it (the M&P) without the finger extension on the mag (one came with a flat baseplate). ...and the 147-gr Rangers printed consistently low; so much so I don't think they'll be regular fodder for it - although they were actually a bit more pleasant to shoot than the 115s. Muzzle flip was pretty much straight up, and not terribly pronounced at that.

Overall, if someone said this was the only pistol I could have, I'd be OK with that. Oh, and one other "up-check" - it fits my Crossbreed XD holsters just fine.

Fodder for the day (310 total):
3 – Winchester White Box "Personal Defense" 147-gr JHP (USA9JHP1)
7 – CCI Blazer Brass 115-gr FMJ RN
100 – WWB 115-gr FMJ RN
100 – Federal 115-gr FMJ RN
100 - Winchester Ranger 147-gr FMJ FN (RA9147FMJ)

Edit to add (2/8/2012):

Since this initial range report several hundred more rounds have been flung down the pipe, including the full day of F'n'G 2011. I can't recall exactly when it happened, but this has been my EDC for quite a long time now.

[carmen fovozzo]

..Chief, you must have some really big hands. Mine are average and my EDC is a 19 and the fit is perfect with a houge rubber grip on it.

...Mine has never not fired when I pulled the trigger. Tried to make it by limp wristing, but I just can't make it screw up.....

[NavyChief]

..Chief, you must have some really big hands. Mine are average and my EDC is a 19 and the fit is perfect with a houge rubber grip on it.

Actually quite the opposite - exceptionally small. One of the things I really like about the M&P is that with the "small" backstrap in I can actually hit the mag release with my firing hand thumb. My 19 came with one of the Hogue grip thingies and that actually made it ever-so-slightly larger than comfortable for me.

[Brian D.]

Guess I forgot to do a write up on the German Sport Guns (GSG) 1911 in .22 LR that I purchased several weeks back. It is a nice copy of the 1911 design, in fact many parts are interchangeable with "the real thing". Comes with easy to see fixed sights, ambidextrous thumb safety, and several other upgrade features that today's 1911 copies often include. It operates and (mostly but not exactly) takes down like its centerfire brethren.

The natural gun to compare this with would be the Chiappa Arms .22 1911. I must say the GSG is better made, assembled, finished than the Italian-made Chiappa. (I use a Mauser vs. Carcano rifle analogy in a not-so-joking fashion here.) Don't know about more recent ones, but the early Chiappas had a horrendous trigger pull, nothing 1911-ish about it in that regard at all. My GSG's trigger pull is a crisp five pounds or so.

Have put several hundred rounds of "bulk box" Federal and Remington .22s through the GSG without malfunction, the first few hundred rounds without a break for cleaning. That impressed me on this gun's overall quality.

Downsides? Well, it only came with one magazine, and extra ones run about $30 each. Also, the GSG has a magazine disconnect feature. However I think that it can be eliminated by changing out the mainspring housing, since that's where the disconnect gizmo is located. Some internet writeups say there have been barrel bushing and grip safety quality control problems, but so far with mine I've seen no signs of either problem. In any event, once again, since the GSG is mostly made the same as a "genuine" 1911, getting a new bushing or grip safety wouldn't break the bank.

[rottman43055]

I took my new stainless Raging Bull 444 w/6.5" ported barrel out today for some shooting today at my friends house.

First up we shot up a box of Winchester 240 gr jsp's. The gun is large so recoil wasn't bad, but you could sure tell this was no semi auto lol.

Next he brings out some light reloads (no idea what they where) and they where very pleasant to shoot. After that he brings out some heavy, hotly loaded rounds he had gotten off his did. After 18 rounds & some one handed shooting with them, my wrist & elbow where begging to stop

Considering I hadn't fired a 44 mag in years, keeping the rounds inside the rings of a bucket lids at about 25 yards was good enough for me, for now.

My friend was a lot more accurate with it, but he shoots a S&W 629 quite a bit.

I was torn between this gun and one that was a lot lighter, but after today, I'm glad I picked the heavier gun

[codeman]

Just got one yesterday for the wife since I am leaving for basic training on monday and she can't got a good hold on my 1911. I have to say that I absolutely love this gun! Recoil wasn't near as bad as I thought it was going to be for a snub 38spl. Accuracy is decent at 7yds. I held a 2 inch group free standing. The laser wasn't hard at all to adjust and held "0" after a box of 50.

The only complaint I have about this gun is the laser. To turn it on you have to hit a button on top of the laser on the right hand side of the gun. It's not very practical in a SD situation. It's more useful as a training tool or to just have some fun shooting with.

[pleasantguywhopacks]

Just got one yesterday for the wife since I am leaving for basic training on monday and she can't got a good hold on my 1911. I have to say that I absolutely love this gun! Recoil wasn't near as bad as I thought it was going to be for a snub 38spl. Accuracy is decent at 7yds. I held a 2 inch group free standing. The laser wasn't hard at all to adjust and held "0" after a box of 50.

The only complaint I have about this gun is the laser. To turn it on you have to hit a button on top of the laser on the right hand side of the gun. It's not very practical in a SD situation. It's more useful as a training tool or to just have some fun shooting with.

I wonder how hard it would be for a manufacturer to put some type of mercury switch in a laser so it activates on deploy of more than say anything less 60 degrees or so?

And I'm not gloating here at you but I find it amusing that we have a gun that is inherently more lefty friendly from the factory but righties seem to be as usual the market. Its just a left handers musing.

[carmen fovozzo]

Just got one yesterday for the wife since I am leaving for basic training on monday and she can't got a good hold on my 1911. I have to say that I absolutely love this gun! Recoil wasn't near as bad as I thought it was going to be for a snub 38spl. Accuracy is decent at 7yds. I held a 2 inch group free standing. The laser wasn't hard at all to adjust and held "0" after a box of 50.

The only complaint I have about this gun is the laser. To turn it on you have to hit a button on top of the laser on the right hand side of the gun. It's not very practical in a SD situation. It's more useful as a training tool or to just have some fun shooting with.

..God Bless the Codeman in the service of our country....Stay Safe..

[codeman]

Just got one yesterday for the wife since I am leaving for basic training on monday and she can't got a good hold on my 1911. I have to say that I absolutely love this gun! Recoil wasn't near as bad as I thought it was going to be for a snub 38spl. Accuracy is decent at 7yds. I held a 2 inch group free standing. The laser wasn't hard at all to adjust and held "0" after a box of 50.

The only complaint I have about this gun is the laser. To turn it on you have to hit a button on top of the laser on the right hand side of the gun. It's not very practical in a SD situation. It's more useful as a training tool or to just have some fun shooting with.

..God Bless the Codeman in the service of our country....Stay Safe..

Thank you and I will!

[damhans]

After shooting BB guns with him all last summer, I decided to buy my oldest boy (6 yr.) a single-shot .22. After handling rifles in stores, browsing manufacturers' websites, and reading reviews online, we decided to get a Savage Cub (model 13700).

Major factors in buying this particular rifle:
-Aperture sight
-Laminated hardwood stock (as opposed to synthetic)
-Sling studs
-Accutrigger

The rifle is light (3.5 lbs.). The boy (who's small for his age) can easily handle the rifle standing using a hasty sling. The fit and finish is pretty good. Better, in fact, than my Savage 93fvss, which had a lot of sharp edges that needed to be touched up with a file.

This is my first experience with Savage's Accutrigger. I'd have to say I like it. The manual states that the trigger comes set at it's lowest weight. It breaks clean, and isn't heavy by any means. By way of comparison, the trigger feels a fuzz heavier than that of my Ruger 10/22RB with a Volquartsen hammer installed.

The safety lever is a bit tough for my son to push into the 'fire' position. After removing the action from the stock, it looks like Savage designed it that way (harder to push to 'fire' than to pull to 'safe'). Just something to get used to.

I also like that it cocks when opening the bolt, in stead of having a manual cocking knob on the back of the bolt (personal preference I suppose).

Overall, I'm very happy with this little rifle. More importantly, my son loves it. It fits him well and he's able to handle the rifle and work the controls safely. My only disappointment is that the trigger guard is plastic (to be expected, I suppose, for a rifle in this price range).

I think he was just as excited about me giving him the sling and swivels off my LTR as he was about the rifle .

[dan dan the XD40 man]

Very nice. If I werent so invested in Glocks I'd be collecting the M&P lineup. My wife carries the 9c and likes it. I've shot it a few times and it's damn accurate for such a little gun.

The 9c has offspringed a couple of 45's

[Imcrazy]

Very nice. If I werent so invested in Glocks I'd be collecting the M&P lineup. My wife carries the 9c and likes it. I've shot it a few times and it's damn accurate for such a little gun.

The 9c has offspringed a couple of 45's

Nice M&P's Dan, If I weren't using 1911's I'd quite possibly be using M&P's although I'd have thumb safeties on mine but to each their own!

I had a 9mm compact, 45acp 4.5" Fullsize and a 45 acp Compact all just as yours are pictured, I shot the 9mm the best of em all surprisingly

[sxshep]

Sig Pro SP2022
Ilaflon coated slide, triple serial numbered, Sig night sights
Purchased new
Approximately 800 rounds fired by me so far

I bought this as somewhat of an impulse buy... a guy I knew won it in an auction, said he didn't like 9mm, so I got it for $450. The going rate is about $375-420 for a non-NS model, and $450-500 for one equiped with night sights.

My first impressions were something like "Ok well, this thing is kind of chunky... may be a bit big to carry, or awkward to shoot". I did like the DA trigger, a very smooth 10~lb. pull and a clean break, and I thought the SA pull was crisp as well at around 4-5lb. I really liked the night sights, and the grip angle all seemed pretty natural to me. However, the grip that came with the pistol (Medium) was a bit too large around the base and didn't seem too comfortable at the time.

I bought a Crossbreed Supertuck for it, but before carrying I wanted to break it in. I put about 250 rounds through it at the range (back in August, I remember it was 96 at the range that day) without a single hitch. The hot weather made my hands sweat, and I had a hard time keeping my grip on the pistol. Also, the medium grip was throwing my shots off a bit because my palm was putting too much pressure on the base of the grip. Overall, though, I LOVED how it shot. Very accurate when I could keep my slippery paws on it.

So I took it home, and ordered a small grip insert for it. That's one nice benefit to the Sig Pro line, there are three available inserts on the market. The grips arrived, and by this time I did a mild stippling job to the polymer frame of the pistol. Now, about 500 rounds later, the gun is one of the most comfortable guns I've shot, I've become very accurate with it, and I carry it everywhere I go.

I liked it so much, it replaced my M&P9c as my EDC gun... I wanted the extra rounds (12+1 for the M&P9c vs. 15+1 for the Sig Pro), night sights, and a DA/SA pistola for EDC. Nothing against the M&P9c, just personal preferrence.

Overall, I'd say this is one of, if not THE most under-rated pistols on the market today. I didn't even know Sig Sauer made a polymer pistol until the guy said he wanted to sell it . Great trigger, very accurate, Sig reliability and quality, and still under $500.

[Wilhelm Tell]

Taurus Millenium Pro PT-111

A LEO friend recommended this gun some time ago, so recently when a LGS had it priced for $309 (blue) and $329 (stainless), I decided to go for it. I got the stainless since they had sold out of the blues by the time I got there. Before plopping down my money, I had checked the OCCW range reports, but there wasn’t any on this gun. So here’s mine.

First off, my gun seems completely reliable. I’ve shot 200 rounds of reloads loaded with 115-gr. Rainier copper-coated bullets and Alliant’s maximum recommended loading of Bullseye. The OAL was 1.162 inches. I also shot 200 rounds of the same bullets with a 10-percent lower loading of Bullseye and an OAL of 1.152 inches. Subcompacts can be ammunition sensitive. For example my PF-9 needs an occasional Heimlich maneuver with the former. The PT-111 handled all of these initial 400 rounds without a single burp. I doubt that problems will develop later.

The most unusual aspects of these guns are the Heine “straight-eight” sights and the “memory pads” on the grip and on the dust cover in front and above the trigger.

Essentially the sights are Patridge sights with one white dot on both the front and rear sight. They’re adjustable for windage, but not elevation. I shot my first series of shots with the typical Patridge sight alignment held at six o’clock to the bullseye, ignoring the dots. My shots were centered about five inches low at seven yards and slightly to the left. After a while, I began to ignore the “Patridge” part of the sights and simply aligned the dots vertically with the front dot covering the bullseye. This raised the point of bullet impact to the correct elevation.

I thought the “memory pads” were marketing hype, but when I put my weak-hand (left) thumb over the front pad, I brought my groups toward the right and centered on the bullseye.

Recoil is very low - much lower than I would have expected for a gun of this weight (18.7 oz without a magazine).

Group sizes seem as small as any I’ve gotten with a gun this size.

The negatives: The manual is pathetic: much of it is lawyer CYA stuff and the schematics used to illustrate takedown are so tiny they’re illegible. It comes with the usual useless, but harmless, Taurus keyed lock. Also included in the box is a brush, which might be suitable for cleaning test tubes, but certainly not guns.

Overall, the gun is light, holds 12+1 rounds, and is reliable. The sights definitely take some getting used to and they are not for target shooting since you need to cover the bullseye. They are however fast and easy to see, particularly for my eyes which have had a few birthdays. This just may be a great geezer gun.

[BobK]

Well, I had discussed buying 1911's with you all here: Let's talk 1911's

Thought I'd offer a range report on my new Springfield Armory "Loaded" model, GI full size, parkerized with night sights (Model px9109lp).

Their loaded model comes with forged frames, slides, and barrels, front & rear cocking serrations, flat serrated mainspring housing, lowered and flared ejection port, loaded chamber indicator, titanium firing pin (no firing pin safety, like Colt Series 80 or Kimber), "Carry Bevel Treatment", "High-Hand" Beavertail Grip Safety, dovetail front & rear tritium night sights, lightweight adjustable speed trigger, and 2-piece full length guide rod.

Since this intended to become my EDC, I replaced the cocobolo hardwood grips with a Hogue wraparound rubber grip. I also pulled out the proprietary Springfield Armory "ILS" (internal locking system) by replacing the mainspring housing with Ed Brown parts and a Wilson Combat flat checkered mainspring housing. I rounded things out with (4) new Wilson Combat magazines ((3) 8-rounders and (1) 7-round) and a couple of GI-spec mags. Rounding out the equipment list is a new Comp-Tac Minotaur holster (which I prefer to my Crossbreed Supertucks). I'll also probably get around to replacing the 2-piece full length guide rod with a standard GI-style guide rod & spring so that I do not need a tool to take down the gun.

Took it to the range after work and it shot the first 200 rounds flawlessly through 4 mags. The range closed, so I had to leave. I still need to adjust the trigger a little for overtravel, but the overall feel was nice and crisp. I wasn't shooting for bulls-eye scoring (for one thing, it was too dark to get a super clear sight picture), but I was able to create a nice ragged hole. Not sure yet whether it will be more accurate than my Para 14-45 or not. It sure feels better in the hand, however!

I wanted the matte black look because I want it to be a low-key everyday gun. I have other stainless guns, but didn't want that this time.

I don't intend to carry it everyday until I get 400 rounds of range ammo through it and 100 rounds of carry ammo. But I've got a good start on that goal.

Gun porn time.