Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying Down

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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Chuck » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:17 pm

Imcrazy wrote: I am pretty much done with OFCC I'm tired of all the personal attacks and disrespect for anyone who isn't an extreme right wing all or nothing attitude..


Not to mention you don't have to answer any questions that way

(BTW,,,, I don't believe I have disrespected you)
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby WhyNot » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:15 am

No longer way out in Vegas, or the nut legistatertot from Kalyfornia.

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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby JustaShooter » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:32 am

Imcrazy wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:You aren't pro-liberty, pro-freedom. I am.

You see bump stocks as dangerous and reckless (but won't say why). I don't (but would like to have that discussion).

I think Chuck nailed it. Your avatar is a lie.

...how dare you speak of me in such drastic assumptions
...For the record I'm about as freaking pro freedom as they come but, ...

I don't need to have a conversation with you or anyone else on the bump stock toys, its not worth my energy, it's a silly toy not worth fighting for one way or another....


How dare I? By your own words. That's how I came to that conclusion. "I'm pro freedom but not when it comes to this object". You say bump stocks are dangerous, reckless, and should be banned. I'm having a hard time reconciling those words with "pro freedom" and "pro liberty". It would be different it you simply said (in spite of your avatar) that they weren't worth fighting for. I'd disagree with you because of the inevitable path that will take us down, but you've said from the start that they should be banned, along with full-auto firearms. Not regulated, banned. That's just not a pro freedom, pro liberty stance.

What's worse is that you won't even have the conversation about why you believe bump stocks are dangerous and reckless and should be banned. You say it isn't worth your time or energy, but you've spent plenty of time in this thread expressing your opinion about them. That's just disingenuous.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby WY_Not » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:56 am

Oh that is rich. You claim to be pro-freedom in one post and in another you want "freedom for me but not for thee."

Imcrazy wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
Imcrazy wrote:...I don't give a flying flip about bump fire toys or exploding targets...
...
I don't care about people playing around seeing how much ammo they can waste in an hour and blowing crap up in their back yards.... Bump stocks are a 'work around' to full auto restrictions, tannerite is a work around to explosives regulations to a certain degree. Neither are legitimate defensive tools.


I guess there isn't much more to say.

You aren't pro-liberty, pro-freedom. I am.

You see bump stocks as dangerous and reckless (but won't say why). I don't (but would like to have that discussion).

I think Chuck nailed it. Your avatar is a lie.


If I was allowed to swear on this forum you'd get an earful, how dare you speak of me in such drastic assumptions. I've met you in person and I though you were a better man than to speak down to me in such a manner. Pro freedom is not a blanket statement or a blank check, you should be come more educated and also be more kind to people you care to collaborate with. I am pretty much done with OFCC I'm tired of all the personal attacks and disrespect for anyone who isn't an extreme right wing all or nothing attitude..

For the record I'm about as freaking pro freedom as they come but, I'm smart enough to know what's worth fighting for, I am not a sheep for the NRA, OFCC, the GOP or any other political association, I make up my own mind based on facts and critical thinking, not paranoia and propaganda...

I don't need to have a conversation with you or anyone else on the bump stock toys, its not worth my energy, it's a silly toy not worth fighting for one way or another....
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Mustang380gal » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:23 am

Imcrazy wrote:Would I love to see every restriction on my freedom to keep and bear arms repealed? Sure for ME, I am responsible and pretty darn intelligent but, we need reasonable restrictions on firearms because there are lots of idiots in the world...

Pray tell, what would those reasonable restrictions be, oh lover of freedom?

Imcrazy wrote: Maybe an IQ test instead of a background check!

That is patronizing at best, and insulting to people at worst.

Imcrazy wrote: I am pretty much done with OFCC I'm tired of all the personal attacks and disrespect for anyone who isn't an extreme right wing all or nothing attitude..

For the record I'm about as freaking pro freedom as they come but, I'm smart enough to know what's worth fighting for, I am not a sheep for the NRA, OFCC, the GOP or any other political association, I make up my own mind based on facts and critical thinking, not paranoia and propaganda...

I don't need to have a conversation with you or anyone else on the bump stock toys, its not worth my energy, it's a silly toy not worth fighting for one way or another....


I saw no disrespect, only disagreement. And I find it incredibly hard to believe that you are as pro-freedom as they come, when you suggest IQ tests, and only seem to trust yourself with "dangerous and reckless toys."

If you have facts, and critical thinking, we would really like to hear your arguments.

We would be paranoid if we thought the Left wanted to take our guns if all other countries that used to have guns still did. Remember the lend/lease program? Britain has not had firearms for years because politicians banned them. We watched Australia ban guns, and dump thousands of firearms into piles to be destroyed. I remember hearing the cries of joy from the leftists, saying that it needed to happen here. We are not paranoid; we are being prudent. It does not make us right wing wackoes, or tin foil conspiratorists. It makes us concerned citizens who wish to preserve the Liberty that our ancestors died to secure.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby bignflnut » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:37 am

Imcrazy wrote: Would I love to see every restriction on my freedom to keep and bear arms repealed? Sure for ME, I am responsible and pretty darn intelligent but, we need reasonable restrictions on firearms because there are lots of idiots in the world.... Maybe an IQ test instead of a background check!


This is the "public safety" argument that focuses attention on safety in an open society instead of Liberty and the proper role of government: To protect the Rights of the citizenry.

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men . . ." - (Declaration of Independence)

Government's Primary Function

2. The people create their governments primarily to serve one supreme purpose: to "secure" the safety and enjoyment of their God-given, unalienable rights. To make and keep them secure is government's primary function and chief reason for existence, according to the philosophy proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence.


One of the responsibilities in an open / free society is that citizens govern themselves. This concept of self government cannot be fulfilled by an all powerful civil government. That's why there is family government and church government given to a society to assist the individual in suppressing base/coarse desires. American society is rejecting the concepts of family and church government and we see the results: more reliance on a secularized, centralized civil government. When civil government assumes powers outside it proper scope, it is called tyranny. Yes, life is this "black and white".

This constant pandering to emotion is indicative of an uneducated populace that lacks a basic comprehension of the proper role of government that can then be reasoned from.

This argument towards "public safety" exchanges the true role of civil government (protect Rights of citizens) for the lie that civil government can make laws which keep people safe. This false argument appeals to people who allow their emotions to overcome well reasoned logic and generates Liberty-stifling regulations that trap non-violent citizens.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Mustang380gal » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:06 am

bignflnut wrote:
This argument towards "public safety" exchanges the true role of civil government (protect Rights of citizens) for the lie that civil government can make laws which keep people safe. This false argument appeals to people who allow their emotions to overcome well reasoned logic and generates Liberty-stifling regulations that trap non-violent citizens.


Yep, murder is already civilly and morally wrong, but it didn't stop the killer from doing murdering. Britain banned guns, then knife crimes increased. Government can't keep us safe. All they can do is prosecute the bad guy after the fact, if he doesn't off himself out of cowardice before arrest.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby bignflnut » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:57 am

The real constitutional argument against contemporary “gun control” lies in the first thirteen words of the Second Amendment. Namely, that every American eligible for the Militia—which includes every able-bodied adult man and woman (other than conscientious objectors)—has a right, and more importantly a duty, to possess whatever firearms can serve any purpose in the Militia, under any circumstances in which the Militia might be called forth. Constitutional “gun control” requires the possession of firearms of every description by every American eligible for the Militia. (Not that every American would necessarily possess every type of firearm; but that no American would be denied a right to possess any type of firearm.) Every self-styled advocate of the Second Amendment who denies this, or who simply evades the matter entirely, turns other Americans away from the constitutional solution to “gun control”, and thereby actually aids and abets the proponents of “gun control”. It may be that these people are motivated by good, if misguided, intentions. But the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, all of them misguided. And this country is too far down that road already to tolerate further misdirection.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby M-Quigley » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:36 am

Imcrazy wrote:
Chuck wrote:That stand and fight avatar ought to read : Sit and Quit


HAHAHAHA, how about fight battles that are worth fighting, honestly Chuck I really don't appreciate the personal attack dude.... I know it's tough but, sometimes you have to be a little finer in your focus and you can't fight every little battle, running a very successful business over the past decade I've learned that those who focus on every little thing tend to missing out on bigger opportunities.... Would I love to see every restriction on my freedom to keep and bear arms repealed? Sure for ME, I am responsible and pretty darn intelligent but, we need reasonable restrictions on firearms because there are lots of idiots in the world.... Maybe an IQ test instead of a background check!


An IQ test wouldn't have stopped people like the LV shooter. He might've been crazy, but LE out there is not accusing him of being an idiot. As far as idiots, when I hear stories of people in the news doing something stupid or irresponsible with a firearm, I understand that it might be easy for a responsible gun owner's first emotional response is that an IQ test might be a good idea. The thing is though,any test, whether you are checking for IQ or mental illness, might be extremely subjective.It could be misused to deny people their rights, just like "may issue" is doing now in some states with CCW.

I'm probably going to show my old age here, but when I was in school, it was the Jim Crow era in the Southern states. Those states had a reading and comprehension test in order to be able to vote. The excuse was that people who couldn't read or understand what was on the ballot shouldn't vote. White people generally got easy tests, and black people got complex tests.

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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Imcrazy » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:58 pm

Alas because I am busy being a productive member of society I just can't respond to ya'll I was busy working all day..... Bottom line it was asked in another thread why OFCC's activity is down, the way I've been jumped all over in these threads is why your activity is low, people don't need this kinda crap in their day to day... Ya'll need to learn how to have productive conversations without jumping to conclusions and offending the crap outta people who have a different view point and quite frankly I'm not here to argue my points and convince anyone, I just expressed my opinion but, I think I'll stick to BFA another other forums as I clearly don't fit the mold here..... Adios keep those tin foil hats tight folks.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby curmudgeon3 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:29 pm

Imcrazy wrote:Good, those devices are dangerous I'm glad they're supporting making them harder to get... Full auto and bump stocks have no place in private hands IMO.


How 'bout the 37k annual traffic deaths: would you be in favor of a law mandating engine speed governors on all motor vehicles ?
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Ghost » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:41 pm

Imcrazy wrote:Alas because I am busy being a productive member of society I just can't respond to ya'll I was busy working all day..... Bottom line it was asked in another thread why OFCC's activity is down, the way I've been jumped all over in these threads is why your activity is low, people don't need this kinda crap in their day to day... Ya'll need to learn how to have productive conversations without jumping to conclusions and offending the crap outta people who have a different view point and quite frankly I'm not here to argue my points and convince anyone, I just expressed my opinion but, I think I'll stick to BFA another other forums as I clearly don't fit the mold here..... Adios keep those tin foil hats tight folks.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic, that the guy who got offended because Chuck said his avatar should say sit and quit, literally just sat and quit this forum?
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Chuck » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:08 pm

Ghost wrote:Am I the only one who finds it ironic, that the guy who got offended because Chuck said his avatar should say sit and quit, literally just sat and quit this forum?


You're not the only one

I'm a bit surprised that he came back for a final post but STILL refuses to address my questions about how we should argue for gun rights after we agree to a bump stock ban.
I figured that he would either come back to answer or stay away completely

That he came back to call us tin foil hat wearers without answering direct questions says something
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Brian D. » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:53 pm

"imcrazy"/ Aaron was on my very short ignore list for quite a spell back when, because of that same mindset regarding "compromise" as a useful tactic against anti- 2A extremists. Maybe two years ago I reinstated him, and the other person on "ignore" was long gone from here.

Started myself with a clean slate, because it goes against my nature to block input on here. But the last couple weeks had me second guessing that decision.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby JimE » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:08 pm

For years, rhino's and fudd's have compromised the 2A to the point they might as well have hung out a white flag.
It has only been in the last 20-30 years that people have dug in their heels and said "enough". If anyone is foolish enough to think the socialist/fascist segment of government is willing to stop , then look at England or California. They will not rest until the cookie jar is empty, and they steal all your firearms.
I view slide fire's as nothing but expensive range toys, and have no desire to own one. That does not mean I (or most of the rest of us) believe they should be banned.
Besides, ATF has affirmed, they DO NOT convert firearms to full auto. (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... utomatics/)
I remember when a M16 could be had for about $800, but the Hughes amendment has forced them into the $20k range today. To me,true select fire arms are way more desirable (yes, I am drooling), but there is no way I can justify that kind of coin.....which is what the compromise was intended to do to us; and what the NFA did in 1935.
If folks want to compromise on this issue, then by golly, get something out of it, instead of campaign rhetoric and bs.
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