Ok, I was asked this question and I'm a bit stumped.

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Ok, I was asked this question and I'm a bit stumped.

Postby Buckeyedoc » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:32 pm

Ok, I know what the ORC states about carrying a firearm on school grounds or on a school activity. I'm fine with that. However, this question was raised to me and I'm a bit stumped. Here's the known facts:
1. It is NOT a school sponsored event.
2. It is not funded by the school in any way shape or form.
3. It is not sanctioned by the school.
4. However, the event is open to the local school district only of certain grades.
5. It is an educational trip

Does the ORC apply in this case since it is not a school event, but is open to the local students?
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Re: Ok, I was asked this question and I'm a bit stumped.

Postby Sevens » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:12 am

If the event is not on school grounds AND you are not a chaperone or otherwise assisting with the event and the public is welcome to come and go from the event, then I would say that it is not a "school safety zone" for the purpose of carry.

I think an easy way to describe a somewhat similar situation is the corner bus stop. As the agreed-upon school bus comes by each day to pick up and drop off students assigned specifically to that particular bus, it is indeed a "school safety zone." If you walk little Johnny out there and chat with other parents and pat Johnny on the head as he heads toward that big yellow thing, you are in a school safety zone and it is unlawful to carry. However... if you are walking your dog down the sidewalk and your travel takes you directly through the middle of 5 students and three waiting parents as you walk your dog... you are legal to be armed.

NOTE: I am not a lawyer and don't have half the brains of most lawyers. Also, I find the ORC to be a bunch of legal mumbo-jumbo and I find most legal language to be a dark pitfall of confusing hate. So don't take my advice. :wink:
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Re: Ok, I was asked this question and I'm a bit stumped.

Postby M-Quigley » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:33 am

4. However, the event is open to the local school district only of certain grades.
5. It is an educational trip


There probably is a difference between an event open to the general public, including schools, and something that is something that is primarily supposed to be for educational purposes. Is the event itself an educational event, or is #5 referring to the trip to the event?
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Re: Ok, I was asked this question and I'm a bit stumped.

Postby Brian D. » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:37 am

Is the destination of the trip a criminal protection zone itself already?
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Re: Ok, I was asked this question and I'm a bit stumped.

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:56 am

Buckeyedoc wrote:Ok, I know what the ORC states about carrying a firearm on school grounds or on a school activity. I'm fine with that. However, this question was raised to me and I'm a bit stumped. Here's the known facts:
1. It is NOT a school sponsored event.
2. It is not funded by the school in any way shape or form.
3. It is not sanctioned by the school.
4. However, the event is open to the local school district only of certain grades.
5. It is an educational trip

Does the ORC apply in this case since it is not a school event, but is open to the local students?


I'm having a hard time resolving 1&3 with 4&5. Does the activity occur during normal school hours, and are students who attend exempted from school attendance? If so, it sounds like an activity held "under the auspices" of the school, or at least close enough that it's very risky.
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Re: Ok, I was asked this question and I'm a bit stumped.

Postby Buckeyedoc » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:57 pm

Allow me to clarify a bit. The event is held during Spring Break and is not on school grounds. The location is most definitely off-limits (government installation). It's the trip down and the miandering around while we're down there I'm wondering about. Again, I have my opinion, but want to provide clear-cut information. Thanks folks.
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Re: Ok, I was asked this question and I'm a bit stumped.

Postby Javelin Man » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:38 pm

Buckeyedoc wrote:Allow me to clarify a bit. The event is held during Spring Break and is not on school grounds. The location is most definitely off-limits (government installation). It's the trip down and the miandering around while we're down there I'm wondering about. Again, I have my opinion, but want to provide clear-cut information. Thanks folks.


Are you going along as a chaperone or just attending the trip as a parent or community member? I don't see any opening which allows you to carry as the entire trip would be a school activity. You'd need special permission from the school board to even have your firearm with you on the trip.
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Re: Ok, I was asked this question and I'm a bit stumped.

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:10 pm

Javelin Man wrote:
Buckeyedoc wrote:Allow me to clarify a bit. The event is held during Spring Break and is not on school grounds. The location is most definitely off-limits (government installation). It's the trip down and the miandering around while we're down there I'm wondering about. Again, I have my opinion, but want to provide clear-cut information. Thanks folks.


Are you going along as a chaperone or just attending the trip as a parent or community member? I don't see any opening which allows you to carry as the entire trip would be a school activity. You'd need special permission from the school board to even have your firearm with you on the trip.


I'll argue the opposite, although the admittedly few details we've got makes it uncertain either way. Taking your child to a school activity is not, in itself, a school activity. I don't see anything in the ORC that would support such an interpretation. Therefore either way he can IMO have his firearm with him on the way down. I don't know what OP means by "meandering around" but it sounds like personal time unrelated to the activity, so again that isn't a school activity.

Since the activity occurs at a gov't installation whether or not it's a school activity is moot: he cannot have his firearm on him there. May not even be able to have it in the vehicle, but for the sake of argument I'll assume that he plans to leave his vehicle parked elsewhere.

So my opinion (fwiw) is: On the way down? Definitely. While 'meandering around'? Probably depending on where & what exactly you're doing. While at the activity itself? No because of it being a gov't installation. Subject to the fact that I don't have the details, which could change things.
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Re: Ok, I was asked this question and I'm a bit stumped.

Postby Cloudwraith » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:51 am

Along the same vein here is a very specific scenario.

High School Sporting Event: Multi-school golf tournament
Event Location: Public golf course
Activity: Walking the course watching your child play in the tournament.
Particulars: Golf course does not prohibit concealed carry. Course is NOT closed to the public while tournament is in progress.

Ok to carry concealed? Ok to open carry without a CHL?

Mods could make this its own thread although I think the questions are very similar.
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Re: Ok, I was asked this question and I'm a bit stumped.

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:07 am

That one definitely sounds like you're *at* the school event, and therefore prohibited from being armed under 2923.122 (Illegal conveyance or possession of deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance or of object indistinguishable from firearm in school safety zone). You're not participating, but you're attending the event as a viewer.

Caveat: I can't find any court cases on this question, so I'm unaware of any guidance to police or prosecutors on the finer details. I think it's safe to say that if you're in the vicinity of an event the officer reasonably believes is a school function, an arrest may be reasonable (even if eventually dropped).
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Re: Ok, I was asked this question and I'm a bit stumped.

Postby Brian D. » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:49 am

We've been trying to find clarity on this issue for 13+ years now.
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