The gun control conversation after Vegas

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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby AlanM » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:09 am

There was a guest on FoxNews earlier this week that used the analogy of squeezing a balloon with respect to event or location security to prevent a terror style attack.
He said that you can keep squeezing the balloon but as you do somewhere where you aren't squeezing the balloon will bulge out.
He went on to say that by having everyone go through a metal detector and be wanded just causes a choke point and also the attacker will just attack the backed up crowd outside the venue waiting to get through the choke point.
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby bignflnut » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:08 am

One prominent gun lobbyist, Erich Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America (GOA) said in a statement that “it is disturbing to see anti-gun politicians and celebrities politicizing the tragedy by calling for further restrictions on guns.”

He went on to defend the Second Amendment and the use of automatic weapons for self-defense. “We cannot blame gun owners, the gun itself, or the liberties protected in the Second Amendment for how evil people abuse that freedom,” he said. “The vast majority of gun owners handle their firearms responsibly. Guns are used up to 100 times more often to save a life than take life. Even so-called ‘assault weapons’ are used in self-defense.”

But, the Virginia-based NRA, the main gun lobby, has resorted to silence. Its social media pages and website, littered with positive news about the benefits of gun ownership, last posted on September 29, the day before the attack.
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby bignflnut » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:37 am

Another gun organization has had an article posted on ammoland.com noting Pelosi's thoughts:

And then consider this exchange between Nancy Pelosi and a reporter on Thursday:

“There are going to be Republicans who resist this because they say, Give the gun control people an inch and they'll try to take a mile,” a reporter asked Pelosi at a press conference. “So how do you plan to overcome that when the truth is that you would like to go further?”

“So what?” Pelosi responded. “They're going to say, You give them bump stock, it's going to be a slippery slope. I certainly hope so. But I don't think bump stock should be a substitute for the background check. By the way the background check is a compromise. There are many more things members want to do ….”

Of course there's a slippery slope. And of course they want to take our guns away. That's always been their goal. It remains their goal. And it always will be their goal.


This boogeyman is then parlayed quickly into a plea for funds, without any resume offered or previous work to show.
NEVERMIND how the author org has recently compromised on Ohio legislation (Sub bill one fourty something) and works with the Swamp monsters to undermine our RKBA.

Sanctimoniously fundraising off of the murders in Vegas while crushing Ohio's citizens in the Statehouse....offered without remorse on ammoland. #Pro 2A
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby bignflnut » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:48 am

Video of Tucker C with Chris Cox regarding the conversation

Blames Hollywood and the culture (which is half right)
Appeals to the authority of ATF on bump fire stocks....even though many true-believers want ATF eliminated from the bureaucracy.
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby WestonDon » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:31 pm

I thought it was inevitable that we would lose bump fire stocks as soon as I heard about them. I don't particularly care about bump fire stocks but I DO care deeply about another anti gun law. That said, If losing bump fire stocks is inevitable we should at least get something in return. Like suppressors, national reciprocity, something besides the same old "thank you sir may I have another"!
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby bignflnut » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:36 pm

While we're all nicely distracted by the bump stock deal....

Let's further the police state USA by locking down hotels

The attack will spur some immediate changes to security protocols, said Bruce McIndoe, president of iJet International, which performs as many as 400 hotel security audits globally each year.

McIndoe said in an interview that it is likely that hotels will train their security surveillance staff to scrutinize customers with items such as fishing gear, skis and other long, thin items that could be rifles.

SNIP

In the bigger scope of security, McIndoe said that even some low-risk hotels may now consider baggage screening and metal detectors as the industry conducts a "rethink."

SNIP

"Now, it's not going to be like TSA," he said, referring to the Transportation Security Administration. "That's just not going to happen. It would very much disrupt the whole commerce model for a hotel property."

Even metal detectors are unthinkable for some venues.


Reciprocity, HA. Hotels are the next national CPZs....

Day after the event...there were two LV hotels running this game

Wynn Las Vegas and Encore have begun checking bags with handheld metals detectors as casinos try new security strategies following the mass shooting in Las Vegas late Sunday.

On Tuesday, two workers, sporting blue jackets and black pants, stood beside a table with metal detectors in their hands outside the Wynn Las Vegas entrance on Las Vegas Boulevard South.

Bloomberg News reported earlier that Wynn began checking bags, resulting in a 10-minute-long line to get into the luxury resort. Wynn reduced the intensity of the checks Tuesday, possibly indicating it was testing the new strategy.

A Wynn employee said guests that stepped outside Monday for a smoke or fresh air had to stand in line again to re-enter, something confirmed by a guest attending a convention.

Also, this article noting the ease of having weapons in hotels
"You can make most any area or event very, very secure, if you're willing to spend a lot of money, a lot of resources and create a lot of inconvenience and that's not something a lot of people have a palate for," he said. "You're trying to balance living in a free and open society with potential criminal behavior or terrorist threats and actions. That balance is not easy to achieve."
(so we're headed towards closing the society)

Can we see a hotel magnate POTUS doing something like this?

Which you gonna choose, false sense of security or freedom?
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby bignflnut » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:36 am

crickets on the pharma front...

In fact, nearly every mass shooting over the last 20 years involved a shooter who used psychotropic medications—soon before or during the attack—to treat a variety of mental health problems.

The connection is indeed so pervasive that multiple researchers have compiled lists showing the connection between the two.

John Noveske, founder and owner of Noveske Rifleworks, compiled the following list...
“A free people claim their rights, as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.”
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby bignflnut » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:34 am

Rep. Carlos Curbelo (R-FL) put forward a gun control bill Tuesday designed to ban the manufacture, sale, or possession of bump stock accessories in the United States.

SNIP

Curbelo’s bill, which is yet to be titled, focuses on accessories that speed the rate of fire for a semiautomatic without turning it into a fully automatic weapon. The language is broad and all-encompassing: “[The bill will] prohibit the manufacture, possession, or transfer of any part or combination of parts that is designed and functions to increase the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle but does not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun, and for other purposes.”


(*Looks left, Looks Right, Repeats*)
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Tweed Ring: "...we should have all done more to elected Republicans..." Agreed
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby schmieg » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:36 pm

bignflnut wrote:
Rep. Carlos Curbelo (R-FL) put forward a gun control bill Tuesday designed to ban the manufacture, sale, or possession of bump stock accessories in the United States.

SNIP

Curbelo’s bill, which is yet to be titled, focuses on accessories that speed the rate of fire for a semiautomatic without turning it into a fully automatic weapon. The language is broad and all-encompassing: “[The bill will] prohibit the manufacture, possession, or transfer of any part or combination of parts that is designed and functions to increase the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle but does not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun, and for other purposes.”


(*Looks left, Looks Right, Repeats*)

This is really bad. Simple trigger modifications for a lighter trigger pull could fall into that definition.
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby M-Quigley » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:00 pm

bignflnut wrote:crickets on the pharma front...

In fact, nearly every mass shooting over the last 20 years involved a shooter who used psychotropic medications—soon before or during the attack—to treat a variety of mental health problems.

The connection is indeed so pervasive that multiple researchers have compiled lists showing the connection between the two.

John Noveske, founder and owner of Noveske Rifleworks, compiled the following list...


I can tell you what the line is from Dr.'s and the drug companies. Those people were a small percentage of the millions currently being treated successfully (their words not mine) for their mental disorder, and that the mental disorder is responsible, not the drug.
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby bignflnut » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:04 am

Apparently this Curbelo bill would ban current possession, also

Massie is also troubled by the retroactive criminalization of devices that people already own. "Are the manufacturers going to be compelled by the government to turn over lists of customers who legally acquired [products] that were declared by the regulatory authority to be legal?" he wonders. "This could set the precedent for a gun grab if you're retroactively banning these things."


But, we must be seen as reasonable... :roll:
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby dl1911 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:40 pm

schmieg wrote:
bignflnut wrote:
Rep. Carlos Curbelo (R-FL) put forward a gun control bill Tuesday designed to ban the manufacture, sale, or possession of bump stock accessories in the United States.

SNIP

Curbelo’s bill, which is yet to be titled, focuses on accessories that speed the rate of fire for a semiautomatic without turning it into a fully automatic weapon. The language is broad and all-encompassing: “[The bill will] prohibit the manufacture, possession, or transfer of any part or combination of parts that is designed and functions to increase the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle but does not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun, and for other purposes.”


(*Looks left, Looks Right, Repeats*)

This is really bad. Simple trigger modifications for a lighter trigger pull could fall into that definition.

Very vague and overbroad. Yes, trigger ligtening, trigger job, huge number of aftermarket triggers, etc. Even Ruger's drop in BX trigger (http://www.ruger.com/micros/BX-Trigger/index.html) for 10/22s could be included in that. I don't think it's by accident either. I'm sure the antis know how this could be applied and how they could abuse it could ban many ARs and such or at least make many law abiding gun owners felons overnight without them even realizing it. While it's specifically for rifles now, I'm sure it would be expanded to cover all firearms either now or as soon as the next nutjob shoots up someplace.
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby WY_Not » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:43 am

Frag reasonable. Abide by what the Constitution says or go home. If they can't uphold their oath then slink home like the honorless cur that they are.

bignflnut wrote:But, we must be seen as reasonable... :roll:
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby bignflnut » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:46 pm

Politico released the details on a new poll regarding the public’s feelings on gun control. For many gun rights activists, it’s not welcome news either. After all, it shows massive support for a number gun control measures that pro-Second Amendment group have been fighting for years including universal background checks, waiting periods, and a national gun sale registry.

SNIP

Further, they found that 88 percent of those surveyed support universal background checks as well as 87 percent supporting “Preventing sales of all firearms to people who have been reported as dangerous to law enforcement by a mental-health provider.”

The thing is, none of that really matters.

The poll was conducted between October 5 and October 9, all well within the period where people were still trying to process what happened in Las Vegas. In other words, the poll caught people when they were emotional, which means they’re answering from their heart, not their brain.

SNIP

Then things settle down. More to the point, they settle down. They look at the proposals and realize that no, new laws requiring background checks for every gun sale won’t actually do anything except annoy law-abiding gun owners. They recognize that someone simply being “reported” to law enforcement as dangerous sounds like a gross violation of due process.

In other words, they start to think. In thinking, they recognize that emotion is no way to craft good laws.
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Postby WayneB » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:18 pm

M-Quigley wrote:
kcclark wrote:Never heard of Caleb Keeter before but he is getting lots of press because he has changed his mind about gun control.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/nation-now/2017/10/03/performer-las-vegas-shooting-we-had-legal-firearms-they-were-useless/726646001/#

We actually have members of our crew with CHL licenses and legal firearms on the bus.

They were useless.


We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think that we were part of the massacre and shoot us.


Made me think about the UT tower shooting where citizens with their hunting rifles showed up and caused problems for Charles Whitman. Today's cops probably would not accept that help.


I had someone imply to me recently that this incident somehow shows the concealed carry reciprocity shouldn't be passed, and that concealed carry at all is useless, simply because it couldn't have stopped this attack. I told her I agreed with her that concealed handguns couldn't have stopped this guy. I then said,
"You remember that accident earlier this year down the road that killed that couple?" She said yes, and I said, "So you are in effect saying people shouldn't wear their seat belts, or that we shouldn't have air bags in cars?" After all, they didn't save that couple." After a few seconds of hesitation her reply was simply, "That's different." I asked her why that was different, and her reply was, "I don't know, it just is," and changed the subject. :roll: Was I wrong?


Depending upon the real timeline, if the guard that stumbled upon Paddock had been carrying, perhaps many lives would have been saved.
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