Malls, theaters etc.
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Malls, theaters etc.
I've read everything I could find online and even a few YouTube videos and can't find a definitive answer. Do the signs prohibiting carry in malls,theaters, restaurants etc. carry the weight of law? Can you be prosecuted if discovered or just asked to leave the premises. Thanks for any help.
- pirateguy191
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
Yes they do. That was easy. Look up criminal trespass.
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"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
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- JustaShooter
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
What pirateguy191 said. Start with ORC 2923.126 (C) (3) (a) and go from there.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
If we dont carry in public places, then we are just fish in a bowl.
#1 places shootings/terrorist acts occur = malls and schools Protect yourself and your family. Whos going to know your carrying?
LEO in my jurisdiction said all they will do is ask that you leave, if you fail to do so, or put up resistance to leave then you will be criminal trespassing.
Im not sure if the wording is incorrect on the webpage, but heres how the LEO explained and it is written in another webpage... and/or being the key words
Knowingly enter in and/or remain on another person’s property, land, or premises
True or not, I dont know, I dont advertise Im carrying so noone will ever know.
I am not promoting carrying in places marked as no gun zones.
#1 places shootings/terrorist acts occur = malls and schools Protect yourself and your family. Whos going to know your carrying?
LEO in my jurisdiction said all they will do is ask that you leave, if you fail to do so, or put up resistance to leave then you will be criminal trespassing.
Im not sure if the wording is incorrect on the webpage, but heres how the LEO explained and it is written in another webpage... and/or being the key words
Knowingly enter in and/or remain on another person’s property, land, or premises
True or not, I dont know, I dont advertise Im carrying so noone will ever know.
I am not promoting carrying in places marked as no gun zones.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
Subscribed to this post.
- schmieg
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
That may be how some LEO are handling the situation, but it is a violation to knowingly enter while armed property where the owner prohibits firearms. While it may be difficult to prove that you knowingly did so, it is not necessarily impossible. All you need is an anti-minded LEO and/or a vehemently anti-minded, well connected property owner and you will be paying for a criminal defense.robbo wrote:If we dont carry in public places, then we are just fish in a bowl.
#1 places shootings/terrorist acts occur = malls and schools Protect yourself and your family. Whos going to know your carrying?
LEO in my jurisdiction said all they will do is ask that you leave, if you fail to do so, or put up resistance to leave then you will be criminal trespassing.
Im not sure if the wording is incorrect on the webpage, but heres how the LEO explained and it is written in another webpage... and/or being the key words
Knowingly enter in and/or remain on another person’s property, land, or premises
True or not, I dont know, I dont advertise Im carrying so noone will ever know.
I am not promoting carrying in places marked as no gun zones.
Don't forget that you also have to leave if someone in "apparent" authority at the location asks you to leave whether LEO are there or not.
None of this applies to statutory CPZ's where mere entry can be a felony, whether knowingly or not.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
Here are a few things I noted in reading through http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2911.212911.21 Criminal trespass.
(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following:
(1) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another;
(2) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is reckless in that regard;
(3) Recklessly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, as to which notice against unauthorized access or presence is given by actual communication to the offender, or in a manner prescribed by law, or by posting in a manner reasonably calculated to come to the attention of potential intruders, or by fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to restrict access;
(4) Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place or otherwise being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either.
"Recklessly" does not equal "Knowingly".
"reasonably calculated" by whom? Judge? Jury?
Also, "negligently" does not equal "Knowingly".
What is a "conspicuous place", and who will determine it? Judge? Jury?
And then, does "owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either", include the guy mopping the bathroom? Or the bag-boy?
Doesn't look like it has to be a manager or anyone in a supervisory position to me.
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- pirateguy191
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
It's all very vague but as I tell my students, "as long you know the rules, you can play the game". Just be ready for any consequences that may occur.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
FWIW Most Malls have multiple entrances. Yes, the "main" entrances are posted...but usually if you enter through Macy's or some similar store...their doors aren't posted. Just sayin how it is where I move about
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- JU-87
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This works.glocksmith wrote:FWIW Most Malls have multiple entrances. Yes, the "main" entrances are posted...but usually if you enter through Macy's or some similar store...their doors aren't posted. Just sayin how it is where I move about
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Read "War is a Racket" by MG Smedly Butler,USMC. He was awarded the Medal of Honor twice. http://warisaracket.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Henry Kissinger said, "Military Men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in Foreign Policy" and has not denied this quote to this day.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
Agreedglocksmith wrote:FWIW Most Malls have multiple entrances. Yes, the "main" entrances are posted...but usually if you enter through Macy's or some similar store...their doors aren't posted. Just sayin how it is where I move about
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
The theater in Adrian Michigan isn't posted so I make the effort to go once in awhile.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
I think it's stupid that you're not allowed to carry in malls. That's one place where responsible gun carriers are needed the most.
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
Ohio-centric question:
How many prosecutions have there been for this "criminal trespassing"?
Is anyone aware of any, in all the years Ohio has had the CPZ sign?
Seems to me if a CHL holder was asked to leave and refused, to the point of trial and the whole nine yards, this forum would have chronicled each moment. (Perhaps I just missed it.)
That said, if a law either isn't being enforced, or is having no impact on lawbreakers...
How many prosecutions have there been for this "criminal trespassing"?
Is anyone aware of any, in all the years Ohio has had the CPZ sign?
Seems to me if a CHL holder was asked to leave and refused, to the point of trial and the whole nine yards, this forum would have chronicled each moment. (Perhaps I just missed it.)
That said, if a law either isn't being enforced, or is having no impact on lawbreakers...
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Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Malls, theaters etc.
There were one or two chronicled here in early years of the forum. They refused to leave or disarm, then argued with the gendarmes when they showed up. I don't like trusting to memory but at least one was convicted of trespass if not worse.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
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